What if the journey between the start and the breakthrough was actually the most powerful part of your story? In this heartfelt episode of Taboo Talk with Sarah, Jenny Reyes—brand strategist, certified DISC behavior consultant, mum of two, and co-founder of Your Brand Story—joins me for an open and honest conversation about life in the “messy middle.” From juggling business and babies, to learning when to say no, Jenny shares what it really takes to build a business and life that aligns with your values—even when it’s not Instagram-pretty. This is a must-listen for women navigating growth, identity, motherhood, and the sacred art of trusting the process.
✔️ Redefining Success Through Alignment – Why saying “no” can be the most powerful decision you make
✔️ The Power of the Messy Middle – Letting go of perfection and embracing life as it comes
✔️ Motherhood Meets Business – How Jenny balances being a present parent and purpose-led entrepreneur
✔️ DISC & Communication – Using behavioral tools to strengthen relationships and show up with self-awareness
✔️ Community & Trust – How collaboration and surrender fuel personal and business growth
🗣️ “Sometimes the most powerful thing we can say is ‘no’—and mean it.”
🗣️ “The messy middle isn’t failure. It’s the becoming.”
🗣️ “I had to remind myself—I'm a mum first. And my values get to guide my business, not the other way around.”
⏱️ 00:00 – Welcome and setting the tone: What is the messy middle?
⏱️ 01:45 – Jenny’s journey from global brands to building her own
⏱️ 07:00 – Balancing marriage, business, and motherhood
⏱️ 11:30 – Lessons from early team-building & trust mistakes
⏱️ 14:00 – Understanding DISC and how it transforms communication
⏱️ 22:30 – Navigating burnout, people overload & honoring your bandwidth
⏱️ 27:00 – Letting go of “perfect” to protect what matters most
⏱️ 34:00 – Why failure (and spider bites) might be part of the plan
⏱️ 38:00 – When life throws curveballs: business pivots and closing doors
⏱️ 40:00 – Final thoughts: Becoming in the messy middle
Jenny Reyes – Brand strategist, communication coach, DISC behavior consultant, and co-founder of Your Brand Story.
She’s also a mum, wife, and deeply grounded woman who leads from values—not vanity.
🌐 Learn more at: [yourbrandstory.co]
📱 Connect on: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
💜 If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone in their own messy middle. Remind them they’re not alone—and that this in-between space is where the real growth happens.
💬 What’s your biggest takeaway? DM Sarah or Jenny or drop a comment on social media—we’d love to hear your thoughts!
🎧 Subscribe to Taboo Talk with Sarah on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube so you never miss an episode of these honest, hope-filled conversations.
Until next time…
Take care of yourself, take care of each other, and remember:
The messy middle is where your magic begins. 💜
Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:03) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast where we break the silences, foster hope and have the tough conversations we're not having but probably should be. If you're new here, I'm your host, Sarah Jordan Ross. I'm a wife, mum to three amazing boys and a long time advocate for honest, heart led healing. The space where we get real raw and sometimes a little uncomfortable.
but always with the goal of helping you feel a little more seen, heard and connected because that's when healing happens. Today's episode is special because I'm joined by someone whose work I've admired from afar for a little while and whose heart I absolutely adore, Jenny Infant Reyes. And I just said her name wrong, but that's okay. We'll go with that. Yeah.
Jenny Reyes (00:51)
Okay, she's young too. I'm an infant. That's fine.
No worries. Hi, Sarah. Thank you so much for having me and I appreciate this and you know, and what we're going to talk about today. So thank you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (01:00)
Bye.
we're diving into something that many of you will relate to the messy middle and why we're doing that is when we were on live a couple of weeks ago now talking with Debbie and Karen as well we said we really need to have that conversation about the messy middle so that's what we're gonna do today and
We might start with getting Jenny to share a little bit of your story.
What got you started? Because you've built your brand's story, which is really beautiful. But I know that didn't all happen overnight. So what did your own messy middle look like?
Jenny Reyes (01:53)
Yes. Thank you.
No.
Yes, no thank you. I was once a corporate person as well. I want to say it's been
two decades now. That tells you I've been... I started working right after graduation. I graduated and my mom shared with me and I know people laugh and they're like, well, congratulations. You've got one week to find a job because we're taking your allowance out. And, know, I was just new and graduated. I don't know if anybody else can relate to that. So I took the first job that I could find that was willing to pay me lasted about three months when I realized I wasn't really, you know, it was a job that
had me in very stockings and pencil skirts every day and you know in a while I loved the people there it wasn't the work that I enjoyed and I went into fast moving consumer goods because I had a professor that kind of recognized my potential my marketing professor and he's like come and join us and so I don't know if Reckitt Ben Keeser is big in Australia
but I handled products like Lysol and some other home care products there for a while, got my marketing and branding start there. And then moved on into a company called Unilever, which I feel is more recognized. And I did from home care, I went into skincare. And that was a little bit more of an established.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:19)
Yep. Yes.
Jenny Reyes (03:26)
community and company. And I handled the skincare there so that was Vaseline and Pond's and by the time that I hit my biggest project which was Dove's campaign for real beauty, I was part of the team that helped kind of launch that into the world. I was also... It's a great campaign. I wish I could take credit for what's happening now but it's not.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:45)
Great campaign.
Jenny Reyes (03:50)
Nothing that's happening now is anything that I've done. But when we first launched it, I can say I was very much a part of. I was also newly married at the time. And with a big campaign like that, that's global and regional, and you're trying to execute it in your market.
I was working about 18 hour days and being newly married 18 hour days, know, the joke with my husband was either he's sleeping too much or I'm working too much because we would, I would come home and he was asleep and I would wake up and get ready to go to the office and he was asleep. so although I knew it was really the work, it was something that I didn't love in terms of like, this is no way to start a new marriage.
he's still with me, know, we're 20 years married already, so we're still there.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:45)
Well done.
Jenny Reyes (04:46)
Well, thank you. Yeah. And so I decided that I would leave corporate and start my own. It started out as a wedding planning business. And I was like, I think I'm just going to plan weddings because I just planned mine. I helped my best friend plan hers. And she and I were, you know, I was like, OK, I think let's let's do that. And people would look at me sideways. They would be like, you went from branding to planning weddings. I'm not understanding. But OK, like, let's congratulate you.
you know, because I was like, I can't live like this anymore. But and then eventually, again, my best friend, she was in a similar spot, also newly married, was in corporate, was handling Johnson & Johnson at the time, some of their personal care brands had left. And we said, you know, maybe we can start a business with what it is that we know in terms of what's missing in the industry. So that's when your brand story first came into fruition. And so we were meeting
and Starbucks and this restaurant in the Philippines that you know we both love so I'm very loyal to that restaurant because I grew your brand story in their booths there from our laptops and so yeah that's it that's exactly how how it started it it was born out of a need of what we felt as brand managers were missing because we were working with agencies that had really good creatives and
and you know, it was very strategic, but when it came to the implementation, would either, it would fall flat. wouldn't, it wouldn't translate. And then when on the flip side, we would work with, excuse me, implementing agencies as well, but they had no strategy. And so becoming the conduit in between to translate it both ways to make sure everything, you know, would, would come out, bring the brand to life the way that we had envisioned it.
became the business. And yeah, there was no like set plan from the beginning. It was like, well, let's try this in the middle. And that was not a good idea. I think we shouldn't do that again. And let's do something different. A lot of that for a while, for a long, long while. And sometimes it still happens. I, you know, we're talking about the messy middle. There it is.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:08)
Yep. Yeah, because
I always think, like, success is the... Yeah, you've got all your ducks in a row and everything's going great, but it's all that other stuff that nobody gets to see that's the... it's what's really going on. It's the, oh, I forgot to do that thing or, oh, my kids suddenly need stuff and work's gonna have to take a backward seat for...
Jenny Reyes (07:35)
Right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:38)
for a minute and life gets messy and complicated and beautiful in that. So how did you, you said you were having trouble with being newly married and juggling too much work and that's why you started your own. So how did you manage that juggle then because
Jenny Reyes (07:47)
Yes.
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:04)
sometimes having your own business you end up working even more than you would have been in corporate because it's not like you can just walk out the door and and leave it all so how do you handle that?
Jenny Reyes (08:09)
Right. That's.
Right, right, no.
Thank you. was, we just went day by day. I mean, if I'm being honest, like there was no set plan to be like, by this time we would do this. And that was a lot of it in the beginning, right? And grateful that our husbands also at the time were very supportive of this endeavor. And so they understood. I mean, at the back then it was just me and my husband when we started. And when we had moved to the US, then I had the kids, it was, well, what can
do from here and so having like Chris was my business partner then to be very supportive too like when she first gave birth to her baby you know I took on a lot more we built the team around us we had about seven people reporting to us at the time and the two of us again in that you know restaurant were saying well we're gonna do this business we want to be able to live do it our way and so a lot of our values was
and we told this to the team was you know don't have to report nine to five here we have the space you don't have to report nine to five if you get the work done in three hours instead of the ten then great go ahead and and live your life right you know if you were if you had a vacation I had to be at home and so we were flexible that way now granted if the work wasn't done then that's when we would start calling people in and so we just made sure that was clear
And then we would work wherever. We would say, okay, well, she had a doctor's appointment and I had to meet her somewhere. So I would go to her house and wait there and then we would work from there or we would make calls just anywhere, literally any restaurant, any coffee shop, and then try to make sure that it ended by the time my husband got home from work.
Again, it was like a day by day thing and there were days where it was like, look, we have an event. had one of our clients, our previous employers became our first clients. And that was kind of a lucky start because, you know, we had built the trust and the rapport there and they were like, wait, you're leaving, we still need your help. And so we offered our services there first. And one of them, like Johnson and Johnson would get us for their big events. And so there were two or three days leading up to the event that we
would leave everybody at home and come and work. great, thankfully it works out and they would get us again. But it was something that we had to acknowledge. It's like, it's a short span of time. We're going to do this for two nights. And then after that, we wouldn't take meetings the next day. It's like, be able to take the time off. So again, nothing very pretty about it, but part of the journey.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:10)
And you said a few times it takes a team to build the dream. So by the sound of it, you had a good team in those early days and it really is really important. And we've talked a few times about community and collaboration.
Jenny Reyes (11:16)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes, yes. I do want to say, yeah, no, thank you. And I did want to say when you said we had a good team, was like, yes and no, because that was also a messy middle. I mean, we had.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:32)
and how important that is.
Yeah.
Jenny Reyes (11:43)
a really good brand assistant that we had hired loved her but she eventually was saying you know it was the type like I could trust her with the with what was going on and do my own thing but she wanted more and she wanted to try corporate because she had never tried corporate she came straight into a startup and then we had the people that stayed with us that taught us all these lessons you know we trusted a lot we trusted an accountant that kind of ran away with
cash and we trusted a delivery boy that didn't deliver, you know, and it caused issues in between and it was like, okay, what is it that we're not seeing? They were tough lessons because every penny that we had earned was hard earned money that we had put together and then we were giving benefits and you know, and it was like, how do we make all of this meat?
But looking back, it's like, that's probably why I know to ask some of these questions now. And I can't say I knew that.
20, 15 years ago when it was happening, it was like, we should have thought of that. Well, now we know, you know, and to the point of our conversation, that's the messy middle. Now when people ask me, it's like, how did you know this? I was like, well, I learned that lesson. I'm not gonna forget it. But if I didn't have that lesson, wouldn't know to do it now.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:10)
You can't know what you don't know until you're in that. Which, things get tricky. We learn a lot of lessons along the way and sometimes it's the, I'll try this and see if it works and just hope that if you do fall flat on your face, you've got somebody there to pick you up, dust you off and say, go do it again.
Jenny Reyes (13:34)
And learning to do it for yourself too. It's like, you know, that I don't know how many moments you've had to it. was like, okay. Tomorrow we'll do it different. Tomorrow, better. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:36)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tomorrow I'll recognize that brick wall before I go and run into it.
Jenny Reyes (13:53)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:04)
Yeah. Until you learn the lesson. Yeah.
Now, I didn't know this before, but you're also a certified disc behavior consultant. So how does understanding behavior help you navigate things and does it alter how you show up or help you to show up more authentically as who you are? And I suppose I know a bit about disc, but not everyone does. So can you unpack that a little bit for us as well?
Jenny Reyes (14:19)
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:40)
Because I think that will help with how you navigate that messy middle because we all do it that little different.
Jenny Reyes (14:44)
Yes.
Yeah, thank you. So, is a tool. I like to say it's a personality and a communication tool that we can use to help understand our innate nature or innate way of being and showing up and how we communicate, right? And the way that DISC has, well, it's been around since the early 1920s with Dr. Marston. And fun fact, he created Wonder Woman. Also, he was the one that
Creative Wonder Woman. I don't know if you didn't know that.
And just, yeah, yeah. And Wonder Woman has all the D, I, S, and C personality types in her character. So it's interesting. We'll talk about that a different day. But the way that it's situated is how people are, yeah, how people technically respond to the world, whether they're more outgoing or more reserved. And again, these are tendencies, right? And then as well as how people are oriented in terms of are they more
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:21)
No!
It's really cold out.
Jenny Reyes (15:50)
concerned about the relationships and the people involved versus really the outcome. And many people will say that you are both, right? You are all of it, but there is a natural state and a natural mix of how that shows up. And that's how you would essentially communicate and see the world as who you are. Now, if I'm, let's say, a high S, which I am, and let's
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:20)
Me too.
Jenny Reyes (16:23)
My husband is a high D for instance. So a high S is someone that's very stable and very supportive and very steady and a high S is more of your reserved and your people oriented corner and you know again this is just like a very quick and dirty and then your high D is more your outgoing and your your outgoing and your task oriented people. So he wants things done done now done well done you know doesn't matter
which serves him well in his corporate role and I'm more, I feel like the S is more of the nurturing place or the nurturing style. And so a quick example I would always give and one of the reasons really that I decided to certify in it was we would have these conversations and you know it's a busy day and we would come together and I would tell him well guess what happened once upon a time, this and this and this and this, right?
his first reaction is, so what's your point? And because, and I know you might experience that you're laughing.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:31)
Yep,
I'm a high S, with a little bit of I, and my husband is very much a D. And it's the, I was just laughing because it's like, yep, I need to tell the story. And he just goes, would you just bullet point it?
Jenny Reyes (17:35)
Ha
Yeah. there you go.
So he says, what's your point? And before I went into disc, my whole thing was, my gosh, he doesn't care about what I have to say. But in his mind, and here I am, like ready to break down and ready to, you know, get my boxing gloves out. And here he is, he's like, I want you to get to the point of the story so I can appreciate it and do, you know, ask all these other questions. It's not like I'm not interested, but imagine we don't have disc.
We're just now there's that miscommunication, there's that conflict, there's that I'm thinking all these stories and he's thinking it's like what the hell happened? wasn't...
not interested but but I use that story a lot because it illustrates the differences whereas now I know it's like he's a D I'm not going to come up to him to say once upon a time I'm just going to go straight to the point so I can get his attention and then he can engage with me and if he knows who I am he knows to ask questions and not to and not to dictate things and say well you should do this or you should do that it's like well what if you did it this way or
you know, because it's more gentle. And so there's a little bit more of a meeting in the middle. And so I think that that's been helpful. mean, it's been helpful in my personal life, but also with business, because once I'm able to assess this client, I approach the conversation differently. I approach the presentation differently as well. I have a very high C client and I'm telling you, it takes forever for us to go through any
document we submit to her, any presentation, any poster. It's like I'm looking, did we dot this I correctly? Did we put the trademark here? Because you have to have that attention to detail with this particular client. Otherwise it comes back and I'll keep coming back again. So yeah, that's been hopefully a little bit of an insight to disc and what it supports with.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:54)
because it really does, but all of those different tools helps us to connect more with different people, to actually meet people where they're at. And that can be a big part of then moving the story forward.
Jenny Reyes (19:59)
Yes.
Yes, and to acknowledge your own communication style so that you know when, I mean, I always joke because I do give workshops on disk to corporations and to teams. And my joke is, you know, everybody assumes I'm very outgoing, but I said, yeah, if you look at my results, it's an S and a C and those are my two top, they're what you call a double reserve.
And so I say, can you imagine if I was standing here in front of you and I was very mousy and going, well, you know, today we're going to do this. mean, everybody would fall asleep. They would rate my workshop a one instead of a five. So I have to know how to access my outgoing, my I and my D and to command the room and the space.
But also knowing that after that, I probably don't want to talk to people after. I just want to go home, go under my covers, eat my chocolate bar and be like, I'm done with everybody for the rest of the day. So the awareness that comes with it too. When to bring it out, when to use it, and what to do if it's not necessarily your most natural. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:26)
learning to know ourselves so then we can actually show up how we need to show up in any situation but then also show up for ourselves in the way that we need to so taking that time you know your own people overload that's what it gets called in in this house yet I'm a I'm an SI but yeah and I'm saying I'm on a different
Jenny Reyes (21:31)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:56)
I'm what they call an ambivert so sometimes I'm grading crowds and other times too many people so and I can recognize now when I am on people overload and it's the no I just need to go and sit and read a book sit somewhere quiet go have a have a bubble bath do something that is just
Jenny Reyes (22:07)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:27)
All about me.
Jenny Reyes (22:29)
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:30)
So,
but it took me a long time to learn that. And I'd say it took you a while to learn what works for you as well. and we're all talking about the messy middle. So let's go a little deeper with that. So what's one thing you learned in that messy middle where like everyone talks about
Jenny Reyes (22:35)
Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Okay.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:00)
beginnings and how great they are and then when we shift into something different but no one talks about that actual transition process of getting from where you are to where you want to be because that's just too hard.
Jenny Reyes (23:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:22)
or the stuff that happens along the way. As he said off-screen, you
got bitten by a bee yesterday. That probably wasn't in the plan.
Jenny Reyes (23:28)
Yes.
I
did exactly. was like, well, should I cancel today? Should I like, you know what? We're talking messy middle. We're just going to come with a puffy cheeks and the bee sting. It's part of it. I feel and I feel like that. I mean, the messy middle helps us show up. I feel authentically once we talk about it, it allows people to say, that is happening to me. I don't feel so alone. And I was in a networking group just another week ago and a friend had launched like this women's group.
And all the people that were there were talking about, well, I was supposed to go to this meeting, but my kid was sick. And you know, exactly what you were saying. And it's like, yeah, that happens to me too. And guess what? We have to cancel and we have to reschedule. But one thing I learned, I I feel like it's really just about...
trusting the process. think I should say I'm still learning it, know, trusting the process. It's like, that didn't go the way I had ever thought it was going to go.
We're going to trust there's something better still that's coming. And you know, what does this, what is the gift in this situation? You know, what's the message? What's the gift is, is what I start to think of now. And then, you know, we work through it and it does turn out different or better than you might have expected. I want to say never really what you had intended or planned.
And one thing I want to share about the messy middle that I see is really in this route of this journey of motherhood. have two girls. You have three boys. I have two girls. Mine are teens. And a lot of what I say is that I'm always a mom first and foremost. And so they know when they need me, they can call. And it's happened where I'm in a meeting and my phone goes off. Apparently my daughter is hurt. She does color guard. And we've got to go take her to the ER.
she just knocked herself with a flagpole. And so I'm in the middle of a meeting and I'm like, you know what everybody, I'm sorry but my daughter needs to go to the ER, we're gonna come back. thankfully the clients that I do have align with those values. So they put the question first, like how was your child? Because if it happens to them, I would probably say the same. It's like, you know what, we're not gonna count this as one of your meetings, let's reconvene.
when your daughter's fine, your son's fine, I get it. And that's part of life, right? I feel like just being able to navigate all of that and to acknowledge that it is how.
we all show up. Otherwise, then it would be messier, I feel, if you're not in alignment with that, right? I mean, it's messy because going through so many things, but if not, then you would just not feel congruent and not feel aligned and and then you just question yourself and your values. I feel like that's that's even harder. So I hope I answered the question.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:19)
Yes.
Yes. That's the thing with the messy. Yeah.
Jenny Reyes (26:40)
It's like it was a little bit
roundabout, but I hope I did.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:44)
No, you did. So, you know that here on Taboo Talk I like talking about things that we don't generally talk about and shining light on that. So what's one conversation that you think we as women, as leaders, or even just as society in general need to be having more often? What is it we're not talking about that we really should be?
Jenny Reyes (27:13)
what is it we're not talking about that we really should be? I feel like the way that we compromise ourselves still and that just brought to mind.
My daughter was having a tough time during the pandemic and I was networking the hell out of the virtual scene because I was like, I've got to keep this business alive. Right. That was my, my thought. And, so I was, you know, meeting people, scheduling and trying to, to engage for, for new clients. And there was this one lady that wanted, you know, was very demanding. We've got to get this started now.
But on the other side of it, saw my daughter was falling apart because she wasn't able to connect with her friends. And I said, you know what, let's just drop everything and let's go to the beach. Um, and this lady had even said to me, he's like, well, if you can't meet me, I'll just take my business somewhere else. and I was, I was at first, like it stopped me in my tracks. Cause I was trying, you know, at that time, everybody's like, gotta keep the business alive. And I was like, yeah, you know what? It's okay. Go ahead. Cause I mean, again, if I just go back to the value of
I'm a mom first and I'm not here to I work to live and I don't live to work right and that was something that I had to play back for myself and say you my daughter needs me I mean physically she's okay she's not ill but but there's something going on and and we need some time and just space to go away so we went to the beach and we just stayed there and splashed in the waves all day and I was like okay I might have lost potential business but I
feel like this was the better choice. And of course, in that moment, it was like, I'm going to lose something. And it's like, no, you know what? I'm a mom first. She needs me. There's no question about that. We're gonna go. So I feel like those situations should be talked about a little bit more, where we're naturally compromising ourselves when we shouldn't be.
being able to say no which is a lesson I've had to learn too. So that's, I hope that's that's helpful for you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:27)
that sometimes no is a complete sentence. But it's for such a little word, it can be really hard to say. And yet when we're stuck in that, I'm juggling conflicting demands and both are important needs. It's the, which way do I? But well done for saying my kid needs me and that's where I need to show up.
Jenny Reyes (29:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:57)
the most because...
If somebody that you're working with can't respect that part of who you are, then they're not your person you should be working with. But sometimes that's hard, particularly when we're in the, I've got to get business in the door, I've got to get money in the door, because if I want to do all these things for my kids, I need that income coming in, and that can be a really hard juggle.
Jenny Reyes (30:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. I agree.
Yes.
Yeah,
yeah, it is, it is. The juggle is real is what I also like to say. It is.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:32)
Yes.
this.
Jenny Reyes (30:37)
And that's where I believe that the trust train comes. We often feel like we've got to control things and do things our way. But then once you start to release, it's very uncomfortable. It's like, my gosh, okay, what do I do now? And I've been, mean, that was in COVID, like the middle of COVID, summer, June, 2020. And I'm, on wood, I'm grateful that I still have clients and people that come to my door now.
I feel like looking at it now five years later, it's like, I should do that more often. And I had to learn through that hard and tough and uncomfortable experience. I I took my daughter to the beach and I was like, I know I should be here. I know I should be like, I knew I should be here, but I still had to tell myself like, I know I should be here. And this is the right decision, you know?
But now it's so easy to say, right? Five years later, looking back going, if you just align with your values, you should be golden. But it's not so easy in the moment. And so just riding that whole trust train is a lesson in itself.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:47)
be learning how to not second-guess yourself because that's something as women we do a lot particularly when we are in that messy middle of the I have no idea what I'm doing
Jenny Reyes (32:00)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:02)
So every decision
we second guess it.
Jenny Reyes (32:06)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:08)
But yeah, it takes time to learn that.
Jenny Reyes (32:11)
does.
It does. It does. Yeah. Building the trust muscle.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:16)
Yes. And sometimes when we've gone through experiences where that's been heavily tested, that can make it more difficult. the... Yeah, if I don't do it, it's not going to get done. If I don't take care of it, we sometimes get to the... I think you said it before, wanting to control everything, but then realizing that we can't.
Jenny Reyes (32:19)
Ha ha.
Yes.
Right, right, that's true.
Right. Yeah.
Yes.
huh.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:47)
and being comfortable with that.
Jenny Reyes (32:49)
Yeah, well, and it's interesting too, if I can just share, had in one session with a group last week, they're part of the what they're doing is a book study and one of the books called Next Level Success by I think it's Scott Eblen talks about how you should allow
things to fail and how hard is that for us, especially if we want, I mean, if you're running a team, right? This was in the context of a manager running a team. And, you know, one of the reasons why you get to a certain place is because of all the experience that you've shown, you've gotten results. But now that you're in that place, you've got to up level and learn new things. You've got to leave the rest to your team and how will they learn if you don't let them learn slash let them fail. And of course it's that.
But I have got to deliver the results. Otherwise, they think I'm a bad manager and all these questions and how much control do I let go of? And so it kind of gives us that perspective of, failure is not our enemy. It's supposed to help us learn. And of course, in bigger companies, you don't want them to fail such that it puts the company in a bad spot. just giving them what are the guidelines, like what are the things that you can allow them to learn for themselves and do their own way.
so that everybody can succeed and it's off your plate because that's the other thing especially if you talk to entrepreneurs you don't want to just keep adding to your plate again going back to the team going back to people who can you trust going back to well I have to test this out to be able to see and then move forward from there
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:31)
think we could apply those lessons to those of us who are mums we can apply those lessons to our kids as well we need to to teach them what they need to be independent and then let them go and yep they there will be times when they'll fall over or they'll fall out of a tree or they'll
Jenny Reyes (34:38)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it's harder than that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:53)
They'll
hit themselves in the head with the flagpole.
Jenny Reyes (34:59)
It's hard to watch though, right? if you had just listened to me, you wouldn't be in this situation and yet we've got to let them learn it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:09)
Yeah, I made the rule with
with my boys. But occasionally if they're doing something, it'll be, hey, no hospital visits. But it's the hospital visits only happen if what they do to themselves is beyond either my first day training or or what's in my kit. So on the whole, it's been broken bones or that needs stitches or glue.
Jenny Reyes (35:17)
Okay!
Okay.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:39)
these days or then we've had a spider bite. So, yeah, can't do much about that one. Yeah. So, yeah, my middle boy is terrified of spiders because he was bitten by one when he was really little. And then he had his appendix out last year and my oldest boy, he was diagnosed with
Jenny Reyes (35:49)
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:09)
MS January, 12 months ago now. And so I'd made that no hospital visits rule before Higa. But it's still...
Jenny Reyes (36:15)
Wow.
Yes, yes, yes. That
is a lot to juggle and like how awesome you're able to do. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:27)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's over 13 years. Because my oldest is 13. yeah,
it's because like some of some of my big learnings have been around health crisis and how you look at that. So that my messy middle was
Jenny Reyes (36:50)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:53)
how do you keep everything going when there's big challenges or how do you work through that?
Jenny Reyes (36:56)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I believe that many people can relate to that too. There's always, I mean that's the reason why it becomes messy. It's because it doesn't follow a certain path and there are these not necessarily brick walls but just curveballs that get thrown our way and they're important curveballs. You know, a way for us to just probably take a look and re-evaluate what it is that we're doing and so...
It's yeah. And here you are.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:34)
I know,
yeah. Well, I know I started my, cause I've been a massage therapist for 25 years. I started my own business in January, 2020. Yes, I did say January, 2020. And then we ended up closing in March and a whole bunch of stuff there. But four years later, I was still there, still, we were going really strong. And then when my son got sick, was like, hang on.
Jenny Reyes (37:42)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
huh.
Yep.
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (38:05)
And we actually ended up closing that business because I knew I couldn't give everything that the business needed and be the mum that I wanted and needed to be. it was the, that's, I mean, our, part of our reliable source of, of income. But it was like, yeah, but.
Jenny Reyes (38:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (38:35)
It'll... it'll work, it?
Jenny Reyes (38:38)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (38:39)
And then it's like, okay, what am I gonna do now? I'll go start a podcast.
Jenny Reyes (38:43)
Thank you.
That's awesome.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (38:47)
where I get to talk to
amazing people like you.
Jenny Reyes (38:50)
Thank you. And you get to share your amazing story too, because I'm sure there are people that have had that as well to go like, she had to close her business. she had to make that tough choice. That's, know, again, sharing it is, is doing the world a service because then, then you know, you're not alone. Then you know that you're not meant to do it all. And I feel like it's just one of those things that life shows us. We can't ever predict it.
I mean, you know, it's I have a mentor that says this or something better still. And so I've I've learned to embody that. It's like it's always this or something better still. And I tell that to my kids and anywhere we go, it's like, OK, we want this or something better still. And we just don't know what it is, but we're open. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:38)
And it's important to be open because life is a gift in all its facets. And even when there is gray clouds, they all have this, they all have a silver lining. There's a gift in everything.
Jenny Reyes (39:44)
It is.
Yes, I agree with that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:58)
Yeah.
So thank you so much for being here with me today. We could keep talking all day, but we probably should go do other things.
Jenny Reyes (40:08)
Thank you. I think so. I think so too.
feel like we, if you turn off the recording and I didn't have other things to do, it'd be like we'd just be chatting and I'd get my coffee and all that. Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Beasting you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:23)
you
be stinking up.
See, you just showed up. And sometimes that's what it's about. Showing up even when we don't feel like that and sharing our stories because you never know when it's your story that might be the thing that makes the difference to someone else.
Jenny Reyes (40:34)
I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:54)
So,
yeah. So for everyone tuning in, if you're in your own messy middle right now, whether it's rebranding, rebuilding, or even just trying to figure out what's next. If you're going through big challenges, I hope you know now you're not alone. And as uncertain as that place can feel, there are beautiful, amazing things that come out of it.
If you've liked today's episode then please share it with somebody who needs to hear it. Connect with Jenny and I on social media. We'll have links to Jenny and Bran's story in the show notes so you can connect with her that way. So I'm guessing that's the way you like to connect with people most.
Jenny Reyes (41:50)
Sure, absolutely. Anyway, I take them. But yes, that is the easiest to find me. Website, LinkedIn, Instagram, yeah. Thank you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:52)
Yeah.
So
we'll have all that in the show notes for you. And you can subscribe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube. So you can rewatch any episodes that you might have missed or catch up on what's on. And I would really love to know what your biggest takeaway from today's conversation is. Where are you in your messy middle? So until next time.
Please take care of yourself, take care of each other. And remember, the middle might be messy, but you're becoming something beautiful and with an amazing story to share. So please go share it with the world. We'll see you next time.