In this heartfelt and deeply personal episode, Sarah opens up about her journey navigating ADHD with her son and invites expert Debbie Thompson to share insights from both professional and lived experience. Together, they explore the misunderstood world of ADHD—from diagnosis hurdles and emotional struggles to the empowering strengths often hidden beneath the stigma. If you're a parent, educator, or someone wondering if ADHD is part of your story, this episode will leave you informed, supported, and inspired.
“I thought ADHD was just boys bouncing off walls... I didn’t know emotional dysregulation was part of it.” — Debbie Thompson
“We tell Jackson it's his superpower—he sees things others don’t.” — Sarah Jordan-Ross
“When kids are told off 10 times more, their self-esteem suffers. We need to look for their spark.” — Debbie Thompson
Debbie Thompson
Founder of ADD-Vantage, ADHD coach and educator
Website & ADHD support tools: [Insert Website URL]
Explore her curated ADHD chatbot: [Insert URL if available]
If this episode moved you, helped you feel seen, or gave you new tools—please share it. Whether it’s a fellow parent, your child’s teacher, or that mum at the school gate who looks like she needs a little hope—your share might be the spark that changes someone’s day.
🎧 Listen now and let’s break the silence together.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:00) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast where we break the silence, foster hope and talk about the tough stuff so you never feel alone. Now today's conversation hits really close to home because we're diving into all things ADHD. ⁓ If you've been following our journey, you'll know Jeff and I are navigating this with our youngest son, Jackson. Now with him, I had my suspicions early on.
But a couple of times when I raised it with a GP, was, he was premmie, he's still really young. Let's just wait till he gets to school and see what happens. Now, I will forever be grateful to Jackson's prep teacher a couple of years ago now for giving me the best shit sandwich of my life. She said, your son is a joy. He is an absolute delight.
But he has way too much energy. I need some help to be the best teacher I can for him. Would you please go get him assessed? Now that was late March, early April. Straight away got the referral to the pediatrician.
come July when I still hadn't heard much, I gave them a call and it's like, yeah, it's possibly still going to be Christmas before you get to see anyone. Like that's the earliest it's going to be. I asked if there was such a thing as a cancellation list. A few weeks after I got a call on a Thursday saying we've had a cancellation for the Monday, you want it? Stupid question. Of course I will take that.
Now, his prep teacher had also given me really detailed reports that on first reading I went, hey, that's a tad harsh. But in hindsight, I'm really grateful that she was so very honest. And when I asked her about it, said, yep, that is what he is like on his absolute worst day. Now, he's not always like that, but when he's bad, that's, that's what's going on with him. So.
We walked out of that appointment with a diagnosis and with a plan, but had we not have gotten that cancellation, we could possibly still be waiting. And Jackson's just gone into grade three. So as you can tell, this topic's a bit personal for me. Now, a little while ago, I was on a panel on the LA Tribune Australian Leadership Show.
I saw today's guest speaking on another panel and my first thought was I need to talk to that woman. So here we are. Debbie Thompson is the founder of Advantage. She's an ADHD coach and educator and thankfully somebody who gets it both professionally and personally. She's a powerhouse of knowledge and heart and I'm so grateful to welcome her here.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (03:09)
Thank you, Sarah. I really appreciate your honest story and it's one that happens so, you know, so often and it's one that my son, who's now 23, ⁓ was not so fortunate because I had suspicions as well from when he was very little and you put it down to he's just a little boy, you know, he's got too much enthusiasm, he's got too much energy and went to prep and nobody said anything.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:17)
Mmm.
No.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (03:39)
know, grade one, grade two, grade three, et cetera. And I think by the time he was in grade five or six, and then he was struggling with friends. ⁓ He was such a sweet little boy, but just did not know when enough was enough. So he had the, what we found out now, the combined type. He has hyperactive and inattentive, but he was doing really well at school. He didn't have any learning difficulties. He was top of the class. So they just put it down to ⁓ him just being...
seriously a naughty little boy. And it wasn't until, and he had, know, one of his biggest issues was his emotional dysregulation. And back then I did not know emotional dysregulation was part of it. I thought ADHD was just boys bouncing off walls, too much energy, didn't know when to stop, impulsive, you know, did not even know that ⁓ inability to focus on what they weren't interested in.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:11)
Which...
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (04:34)
was a thing as well. So he, when he went into Minecraft, he was an expert. But when he had to clean his room, it just wasn't happening. So that, didn't know anything about hyperfocus either. this poor little boy got to, I think 16 and ⁓ one of his friends was being diagnosed. So he went, mom, think I might've ADHD. And I'm saying, yeah, I think you do. Anyway, we got him diagnosed and back then, which was about six years ago now,
you could see a psychiatrist within a reasonable period of time. It's very different now. Got to see the psychiatrist and he goes, yeah, he's got ADHD. ⁓ I just felt like, why had someone not said something earlier? I could see his biggest ⁓ thing was his self-esteem. He felt broken. He goes, why can't I make friends? Why can't I focus in class?
you know, what's wrong with me, mum, all the time. And I just thought if I'd known at PrEP that this was happening, I could have intervened and helped him earlier. So my story is not standalone. There many, many people like that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:45)
Yeah, I guess that's the thing. Everyone's journey is that little bit different and you shared your aha moment and you're getting that diagnosis and I know even for us, like getting in to see the pediatrician to get the diagnosis and your story even more so getting that actual diagnosis is a little like pulling teeth and even then when you do, it's not the
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (06:06)
Yep. Yep.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:15)
not the overarching solution that you sometimes hope it will be. It's the start of, okay, now we know what's going on. Now we can start to do something about it. But why do you think still getting that foot in the door, that diagnosis, that starting point to then work on things is still so hard? And what would you say to parents who are stuck on that wait list?
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (06:20)
Yeah, something.
I'm looking there a number of things that you can do straight away that while you're waiting on the wait list is. Actually I'd like to go back before I answer that question I just want to in context what happened to my daughter so my daughter had inattentive ADHD did not know a little dreamer is she was a child but we just thought she's a you know she's the way in her own world she tried so hard at school again she did really well at school.
But again, emotional dysregulation and also rejection sensitivity, which we now know are huge parts of ADHD, really struggled with friends. ⁓ And so with a lot of these inattentive girls in particular, they mask because they want to fit in. So she masked and she tried really hard and actually she got burnout. But her big thing was we didn't realize it was ADHD because ⁓ there was so much anxiety. So we thought it was anxiety.
But what I've learned since is that, you if you've got ADHD, 70 % of people with ADHD have some kind of anxiety. And this is often what happens is the anxiety masks the ADHD. Anyway, this is what happens to a lot of girls. She wasn't diagnosed, left school, went to university. And this is when being on her own without the support, she just basically fell off her perch and had a breakdown. And we went to a psychiatrist who went, look, this could be ADHD.
sister and it was and the city she went on the ht medication it made all the difference anxiety went down things i'd use just a side effect of the ht rather than the other way around now that is really really come up to keep a ghost they just don't get diagnosed number one day they go under the radar they don't talk cause any trouble ⁓ you know they they perhaps don't focus but you know focusing at school now is a new
issue that many kids have, even without ADHD. they just don't get seen and then their self-esteem and they feel broken. I work with a lot of girls in their late teens, early twenties. And one of the biggest things is I'm broken, there's something wrong with me. And as soon as I understand that their brain is different, they go, gosh, I'm not broken, it's just how things are. So anyway, going back to answering your question,
I think a lot of people fall through the cracks because they don't fall into what typically is seen as ADHD and they mask and there's a lot of other things thrown in as well. you know, they don't even get to the psychiatrist and then you've got the issue is once you go, hmm, this might be something going on, let's go and get assessed. You have to see a psychiatrist. The wait lists, as you know, depending on where you live, anything from a year to two years.
And the cost is huge. And so I worked in a low socioeconomic school on the Gold Coast. And the students I worked with, many of which, once I understand what was going on, many of which had ADHD, but they were not going to be diagnosed purely because they just didn't have access to the resources. ⁓ you know, there were a number of other things going on as well. So it was like, okay, what do I do with these kids?
that I can really help with the executive function, but with their self-esteem, with their social skills, with all those other things. one of the big things is to, particularly as a teacher, is to make sure that our routines were very ADHD friendly. So they knew what was coming. There was a routine, they knew the class. also broke it up so that ⁓ they had an opportunity to reset.
So every 25 minutes, we either did a mindfulness break or a movement break or something so that they could reset. I also broke everything down so that there wasn't overwhelm. Every step was... And we also talked about it and emotional regulation and had different cards for I'm overwhelmed, just, know, I need some time out or I just need some help.
And so rather than them being ashamed of being overwhelmed, it was like, okay, this is okay, this is who I am. Did that answer your question?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:56)
Yes, and leads into a few others. Sometimes it's... They do so often get that I'm broken, there's something wrong with me. But when you actually say, no, it's just that your brain works different to others and that's okay. We tell Jackson, it's his superpower. Because he sees things that...
we don't all see. Okay, he doesn't see some things like that. Trying to ride your balance bike down a steep bunch of stairs is probably not the best idea and it's a really good thing that the dog stood in front of you.
but.
There's the, and we also tell him that sometimes his brain works a whole lot faster than everyone else's. So he needs to slow down, I mean, at an end and see. But you mentioned that there's a lot of masking. There's a lot of times where
people don't recognize that ADHD is what's going on or that they're labeled as the just a naughty little boy or they've had too much sugar or you just need better discipline, all those sorts of things. Thankfully, the stigma around ADHD and that they're just a naughty kid is lessening, but there's still
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (12:24)
Yep. Yep.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:29)
a lot of judgment and a lot of unhelpful advice.
And I think you just disappeared. Are you still there?
don't know what happened there.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (12:41)
Sorry.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:42)
No, that's okay. It happened yesterday too. I was interviewing someone in North Queensland and she kept dropping out too. So I don't know whether it's your internet or... No, that's... That's all good.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (12:52)
Sorry about that.
Yeah, and I think the thing around stigma,
good, think that's, you know, the thing about stigma is really important. ⁓ you know, looking back, my brother had ADHD, he's now 50. But back then, you know, 40 years ago, there was huge stigma. It was like, you're a bad parent. What's wrong with your child? There was nothing good about having ADHD. And I think a lot of... ⁓
very high achieving people have come out and said, I've got ADHD and actually my ADHD is my superpower. And so people are starting to realize that having ADHD, ⁓ you know, I look at my son, for example, and when he's interested in something, he can hyper-focus and he can become an expert more than anybody else. So he has this ability when he's interested. ⁓
to become actually very, very good at what he does. And this is, you know, held him good stead, but at school it was hard because he had to do all the subjects. And I think a lot of kids find it particularly in school because school expects you to sit still for long periods of time and to do subjects that you haven't actually chosen, you just have to do because they're of the curriculum. So school is a place that often doesn't suit ADHD brains. But outside of that,
you know, doing their hobbies and also when they leave and they get a career that they love, they excel, they excel. So, you know, I've never felt that it's been ⁓ something that's held them back. In fact, it's their superpower, it's really their superpower because they can do stuff that other people can't. They're so creative. They think about things in a way that nobody else does, ⁓ you know, so they, no wonder so many entrepreneurs.
and original singers and ADHD because their view of the world is so unique and ⁓ that it brings a new perspective. And I think that's what they need to, particularly in schools, and it's hard, I get it as a teacher, but to look for that child's superpower. What is it that they are really, really good at? And try and encourage that.
So that, because they feel, they told off Sarah 10 times more than their non ADHD peers. So if you're told off 10 times more, your self-esteem is going to, you're going to feel broken, you're going to feel that there's something wrong with you or that you're naughty. So it's really important that we look for what is the thing that that kid is really good at and we really hone in and make them feel special about it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:36)
that when they are doing that thing that lights them up that we praise them for that. And remember that we don't all fit in one nice neat little box what works for one kid is not going to work for another and that is true of all children regardless of if they have ADHD or not we don't all fit into nice neat little boxes and I know I've had
some really helpful, really great people in my corner that know a lot about ADHD and have really helped me learn more about it and also help Jackson. It doesn't always happen that way with the putting them all in one. So I had just this week Jackson and I do taekwondo together and he really loves it but
just sometimes at the time of day that it is, he can sometimes struggle. But this last week, he came onto the floor and did a few things. And then when he realized that he needed to not, he went off and he took a break and then he came back when he was settled. And I was super proud of him for that. And even more so when the instructor came over and said,
Hey, well done buddy. You did really well knowing when you needed to come and take a little break and then when you were ready to come back. So really good job. Cause he'd had a really bad week the week before and that same instructor said, Hey, don't you ever worry about coming and him bouncing off the walls or, or whatever. We've got it. You need to be here for you as well. And he'll get what he
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (17:12)
And I think that's a really...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:33)
what he needs to. So just having that, that they'll work with us is really great and that they're recognizing that he's different to some others. Cause I've also had people say, ⁓ I work with lots of kids like that. know how to handle it. And it has me go, yeah, maybe, but you don't know my kid. And yeah.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (17:58)
That's actually, yeah, that's a very good point because
ADHD presents so differently for everybody. No journey's the same. And so we have this umbrella and it has so many facets below it. No wonder people are confused. Well, what actually is ADHD? Doesn't everyone have a little bit? Because you have the kid bouncing off the walls who can't sit still. And then we have the kid who is really, quiet and can't focus. And then you have the one who's, you
very sad or very stressed or whatever. So it's such a different journey for everybody. ⁓ through my work going into schools and training the teachers, it's to see that ADHD looks very different for every child. And so you need to take the time to understand what is it. They might have really great executive functions. They might be really good on some things.
but struggle with others. So it's building that executive function capacity. Just like your son, when he's overwhelmed, he safely knows what to do. I need to remove myself and then I will come back. Because that executive function is often, they say, delayed about 30%. So a 12-year-old will operate like an eight-year-old in terms of executive function. So we'll go, well, that child's immature. Well, actually, they're not immature. Their executive function
is delayed. Now it will catch up, you know 24, 25 is when most people's you know reach their executive function, it might be a little bit more delayed for ADHDs but it's really important that we build that executive function foundation because they're going to need that later on in life.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:43)
Yes, and we've all got to build up those skills that we need later on and find what works for us in building those. Now, I sometimes joke that my husband is a little ADHD. Now, you know my husband, Jeff.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (19:46)
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay, yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:04)
⁓ yeah,
but the more I like it, it makes sense. Some of the things that he does say, yep, possibly do, but he was never diagnosed. And I'm coming across a lot of people who are either getting diagnosed later in life or who are getting to know more about ADHD and doing the, ⁓ hang on.
that just might be, might be me. Now, it might be that there's been other things like trauma that have influenced that as well. But why do you think it gets missed so often when the younger, you mentioned a little bit about masking. Can you go a bit deeper into that for us?
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (20:54)
⁓
Just going back to what you're saying is, 20, 30 years ago, people weren't diagnosed. I was just, because I had hyperactive ADHD, I was just a really naughty girl. ⁓ And that was all I was. I was the naughty girl who couldn't focus. ⁓ But once I left school, I was absolutely fine. ⁓ I did try and mask, because you want to fit in. Everybody kind of wants to fit in. So I...
you I tried to do all the things, copied what other people were doing, sitting down, you know, whatever. And, you know, particularly for my daughter with inattentive ADHD and anxiety, ⁓ you just, don't, actually lose yourself ⁓ because you so want to fit in, you don't even know who you are anymore. And this is often, you know, early twenties where they go, I don't even know who I am. I've been people pleasing. A huge one is people pleasing.
⁓ because you want people to like you and you get so, you're told of 10 times more, you get a lot of rejection ⁓ from people, friends in particular, because you're either too much or too little, because when you're high, you've got all this energy and it's too much and then when you crash, you've got nothing. So, you know, often people are told you're too much or you're too little. And so you try and fit in to be, it is a hard place to be. It is a hard place to be. And that's often why
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:12)
And that's a hard place to be.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (22:18)
ADHD is often later on in life, know, their friends are ADHD because they all just get each other. ⁓ And, you know, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm really, I just can't get this timing thing right, or, ⁓ you know, I forget this or whatever. And there's more understanding amongst them. Not I'm saying that you only have those, but I find that most of my friends are.
they've got some level of ADHD whether diagnosed or undiagnosed.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:51)
think that's it. We all look for that place where we fit in, where we belong. And Brené Brown talks about the difference between belonging and fitting in. And I absolutely love that she highlights that difference. So fitting in requires you to change to be accepted. Belonging, they accept you for who you are. So I sometimes think
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (22:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Yep.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:20)
That might be why people with ADHD, whether they're diagnosed or not, tend to clump together because... Yeah. There's so much that we can just go, yep, you get it. Or the, you don't have to explain everything. Yeah.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (23:33)
Yep, yep. And don't have to expand everything. And it's like when you interrupt
because you've got 400, you know, 10 tabs open and you've got to get that thought out and they coming at you and people are looking and going, whoa. And I'm going, no, this is normal. This is just how we communicate. but for somebody who perhaps doesn't have a brain that works that way, it's like, well, she's a bit rude. She kind of interrupted me, but.
you know, if I don't get that out, I'm going to forget that thought. And to me at that time, that's a really important thought. So it's just having people who will, ⁓ yeah, just accept you for who you are. because on the other side, you're this bright, bubbly person with so many ideas, right? ⁓ And then it's like every two sides to a coin. So ⁓ yeah, it's finding your tribe and the people who accept you for who you are. I think.
message for everybody is those people are there, it's just a matter of finding them. Don't try and fit in ⁓ so that you feel, because at some point that's going to come back and bite you because you've been trying to be somebody that you're not. And without that authenticity, you'll never get that inner peace or that happiness.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:50)
and that's what we're all looking for at the end of the day. So to find that space where you can just be who you are.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (24:52)
Yep, exactly.
Yup. Yup.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:00)
Yeah. One of the things I do love is about your work is how strengths based it is that it's not just about managing your ADHD symptoms. Like I sometimes think it shouldn't be classed as a disease or a disorder. It's a, but yeah. And you look at how to thrive.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (25:17)
No.
If you think back on the Savannah, like, you know, and then the saber tube tiger was coming at you, you want an ADHD person. They've got so much energy, they've got pride, they make quick decisions. You know, lot of research has been saying that it's been around forever. It's just since the industrialization of school and sitting still, and you know, the industrialization of work, or we have to sit at desks for long periods of time,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:31)
I'm just kidding.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (25:46)
it just doesn't suit ⁓ in general ADHD brains. So it's not that there's something wrong with the brains, it's just that the environments that kids and people in doing traditional kind of jobs are stuck in, they don't support our brains.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:03)
And so much of how things are done now has changed. Doesn't support how our bodies and our brains were originally designed or what we used to have to. So the body responds exactly the same way to, oh, I've got to have that report on my boss's desk as there's a saber-toothed tiger trying to eat me. The brain can't tell the difference. And it also can't tell the difference between a very real threat.
and an imagined one, your nervous system does exactly the same thing. yeah, our nervous systems respond in a particular way. And our bodies were not designed to be static the amount of time that we ask them to be. As a massage therapist, I tell somebody, if you want to know the right way to move or the right way to do something in a physical sense,
look at a young child because if they got to pick something up they'll bend down they'll get really close to it they'll pull it into their body and then they'll roll back up not like us silly grown-ups who throw our back out trying to lift a pen because we're doing it the wrong way and those little kids they haven't learnt the bad habits or have had the sit down and that's the other funny thing I find
Like when they're tiny, we praise them for moving and for talking and for doing all those things. They get to school, all of them work now too, and it's sit down and shut up. That doesn't work. I know with Jackson, sometimes you'll think, like cause he's wriggling and fidgeting, you'll think he's not listening. But then later you'll ask him something about that.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (27:44)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:58)
He knows exactly what was going on. actually takes it in better when he's moving than if he's, if he's not.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (28:04)
And that's exactly right. So movement
is a really, really important part. ⁓ And apart from medication, ⁓ exercise is seen as one of the most beneficial because some of the brain chemicals that you create when you're doing exercise are the similar ones that the medication gives to you. ⁓ And it helps with obviously dopamine, which is a huge one as well. And moving.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:27)
for me.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (28:33)
is a really interesting one because ⁓ by moving, know, kids with ADHD, you know, move a lot, the legs going, the tapping and, you know, whatever, and it helps them with their dopamine regulation. So it's actually, they know that that helps them ⁓ to regulate. But it's the teacher who doesn't want the noise or the distraction or whatever. But part of what we do now is just to educate the teachers to know that
Movement is a really important part of helping them regulate and giving them movement breaks, giving them mindfulness breaks, giving them an opportunity to just self-regulate, because that's really important.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:14)
Yeah. And just to...
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (29:15)
And the other one that's
very interesting, sorry, is sleep. ⁓ Some of the studies show that up to 70 % of people with ADHD will have some form of sleep ⁓ issues, whether it's falling asleep, staying asleep, ⁓ whatever. And so not only have you got the executive function dysregulation, and it's different for everyone, as I said, but on top of that,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:20)
Now you're right.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (29:44)
you're probably sleep deprived and you know what it's like when you're sleep deprived. I can't think as clearly, I can't focus and all those things. you know, they have a double whammy because ADHD really loves a bit of company and there's often something else going, it's never just ADHD. It's ADHD and something.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:04)
So what are some of your go-to tools and strategies or shifts for helping individuals and their families start to thrive with ADHD, to live well with it, not just survive it?
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (30:20)
Yeah, so the first thing is to kind of find out where they really are. What are they struggling with? What do they find very challenging and what are they really good at? So we know where they stand. Cause as I said, every ADHD journey is very different. it's important to know where you are and be honest, you know, ⁓ because sometimes it's not, you don't want to admit some of those things, but it's about being honest.
And then usually what we do is we'll work on the thing that is the most impactful, that's going to change their life. Because you can't work on too many things at once because overwhelm is a huge thing. it's like anybody changing a habit is, it's like New Year's resolution, you come up with 20 and what, by day three you've done none. It's slow and steady. often one of the first things is sleep. We look at sleep. ⁓
And it's just sleep hygiene. What time they go to bed, when they eat, when they take their medication. And it's all about consistency. Are they going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time every day? And is their routine conducive to them getting as much sleep as possible? Because that's often a game changer. Then the second thing is ⁓ adding in some form of exercise just to help with the dopamine ⁓ regulation, but also
There's often a lot of, as I said before, anxiety as well and depression with ADHD. And we all know from all the research that's done that ADHD is so good for your mental health. And then it's usually focusing on something that they are struggling with in particular, whatever executive function, you know, might be starting tasks or, or, or, or, or, ⁓
you know, whatever that executive function, it might be time blindness, whatever's holding back, and we will just put some strategies in place. And with those three, that's usually the starting point.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:21)
It's always a good place to start.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (32:23)
Yes, yes. And the thing is, know, so many people are looking for a magic bullet, right? ⁓ And sleep, it would, but you know, sleep and exercise are two very, very foundational things. And I think people go, that's so obvious. Yeah, it is so obvious, but it is so powerful. And the amount of research that's done on
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:34)
It'd be nice if one existed.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (32:51)
how sleep and exercise support ADHD brains. You know, it's extensive and it's overwhelmingly, these things have got to get, they've got to get sorted. Foundational, I'd say. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:06)
And some of the interesting research that's being done now on the gut microbiome and it being the gut being our second brain and the importance between those connections between our gut and our brain. So it's those little things of getting your sleep right, getting some exercise, eating as well as you can, doing things that will support that mental wellness overall.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (33:33)
Sorry, Sarah, the internet went out again. Can you just re-say that? I didn't hear the question or the statement.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:35)
So, you can... Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. What I said was that there's some really interesting research coming out now about the gut microbiome and its connections to our brain. So I said it's important to get those, those foundational things right of checking your sleep, getting some exercise because we all know that that helps us feel better. And then working on getting your gut.
right so that then it's because a lot of our neurotransmitters are manufactured in our guts so if we can get it working as well then that might have that knock-on effect on our brain.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (34:18)
Yeah,
yeah. And look, these are foundational ⁓ lifestyle things that would benefit everybody, right? Absolutely everybody would benefit from those three things alone. But with the ADHD brain, it really does have a big knock-on effect and impact. Now, some people with that and some executive function training and having supports, ⁓ you know, at home and with people and with apps and whatever, they are fine. So,
My son doesn't need medication. It just doesn't really agree with him. It makes him really anxious and messes with his sleep. Whereas my daughter, the medication with these other things is foundational. Without that, she literally has so many thoughts going on. It's like just, ⁓ it's just overwhelming and she can't actually get anything done. So, ⁓ and the other thing just to say about medication is it does take trial and error to sort out.
you know, very rarely on the first dose or the first medication does it work. And it's a matter of ⁓ trialing that, working with your psychiatrist or your pediatrician or whoever ⁓ to find out, for some people the benefits of having them way outweigh the side effects. And it's getting that balance ⁓ because if you had diabetes, right, you would be on, you would do your lifestyle things just like we talked about.
but then you would also go, well, I need some kind of medication. So I think it's important to look at both sides. And I think it's important to do what's for you and you and your child. There's no one thing that fits everything and that's it's the panacea and that's the magic bullet. It just doesn't work that way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:04)
doesn't work that way at all and I know for our family we were a little reluctant to go down the medication route to start with because we had seen some kids who were over-medicated and they lost that spark that made them then like Jackson I will be very surprised if he does not grow up to be a comedian because the boy is hilarious that just like
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (36:15)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:33)
He loves making people laugh. ⁓ He sometimes comes out with really profound things that just like, have no idea where you got that. or, but he surprised my sister once by telling her all about the Kyber Belt when he was all of six years old, because he'd been watching kids learning tube and he picked up on that and ran with it and kept finding more information about that thing because he was interested. And when he...
find something like that, he just can't help but tell everybody about it. And we didn't want him to lose that spark. But so we did that, tried a few other other things and there was interventions in place at school. And again, his his amazing prep and grade one teachers said he's not progressing as well as we would have thought he would with the level of intervention that he was getting.
and I expressed my concerns to the pediatrician and she said, if that happens, he's on the wrong medication or it's too much and we just.
We figure it out. We find that thing that's right for him. And we did put him on medication and it has been an absolute game changer. Now we've had to increase the medications or change because yeah, he's only eight years old. So it's going to be a process as he grows of finding that thing that that still works for him. But yeah, it's one of those if
they need the medication, then go that way. If that's what works for, for your child. But try all the other things as well. It doesn't have to be an either or conversation. can be that and conversation.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (38:24)
Yeah.
I think that's really important. I think it's, ⁓ and that would be for any health challenge that you're facing. It's never a ⁓ pill. It is the other things that are foundational as well, plus the medication. And as you said, ⁓ it's trial and error, trial and error, because everybody's body is different. The way we metabolize everything is different. And some days are different because...
ADHD is not a dysregulation of attention. The name is very misleading. People with ADHD can hyper-focus on things that they enjoy. So novel, enjoyed, and the other thing with ADHD is if you give them a time limit, they're unbelievable in an emergency and things like that. So it's not dysregulation. It's...
And I think that's also what's confusing for people because when they see a child and they go, well, they can't do maths and they can't focus in class, but my gosh, they can spend hours and hours playing that video game or creating that thing or learning about what was it that your son became an expert in? The Kuiper Belt. And if you're interested, they go down rabbit holes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:32)
The Kaiba belt. Yeah.
Yeah, we're in a Minecraft one at the minute.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (39:40)
Yes. Yep. And my son was as well. was unbelievable. You know, what he could build at such a young age. It was like, whoa. And it was, you know, his mind, his creative mind and his ability to focus on things that he want, you this hyper focus. But then you have to be careful because, you know, when he's hyper focusing on something, he doesn't eat, he doesn't get up, he doesn't drink. It's like, you know, you need to stop now. You need a little break.
you need to move away from this. I guess it's like everything. There's a and bad. Balance, balance.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:12)
that balance.
One of the questions I always like to put in here somewhere is, what's the thing that you think we need to be talking about that we're still not? So that conversation around ADHD that you think still needs to happen.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (40:30)
I think we need to get rid of all the myths still. There are still some myths and misunderstandings out there. And one that's most hurtful for people with ADHD is, well, everyone's got a bit of ADHD. Try harder, moving on. it's, our lifestyle with...
And just the way how environments have changed, it's not conducive to deep thinking and to staying focused, right? We're constantly distracted, social media, particularly TikTok, know, ⁓ deep focus is something that is kind of disappearing. And so, yeah, many people have issues with focus, but just because you have issues with focus does not mean you have ADHD. I think that is one of the things is, you know, they do these silly...
movies where they go, ⁓ talking and ⁓ where's the unicorn or where's the squirrel or whatever. And you're going, gosh, you're really diminishing or making light of what ADHD is because, you know, there's some amazing things about having ADHD, but there's some really frustrating things, you know? The rejection sensitivity of feeling rejected, you know, struggling with your emotions, struggling with friends, struggling to stay focused, many.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:43)
Yes.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (41:52)
People who were diagnosed later in life, in their 50s and 60s now, ⁓ because diagnosis didn't happen, you know, there's a lot of mourning ⁓ because their careers just didn't happen the way they wanted them. ⁓ You know, with emotional dysregulation, sometimes their marriages didn't work. There's a lot of regret and shame, and if only I'd known and had some help. ⁓ Because, you know, being married to someone with ADHD, you have to, we have to learn to accept.
you know, the good, not the good, because there's no judgments on it, but there's some things that are amazing about them, but it's like, you know, for goodness sake, can you just clean something up and stay organized? And when you say you're going to do that, actually do it, you know, without judgment. So I guess it's ⁓ not to try and take ADHD and put it into five words, and that's what it is, but to try and understand.
the depth and the breadth of it and to have compassion for people rather than judgment, I guess is what I would say.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (42:59)
And that's a really good thing to point out because we all need to be a little kinder and treat each other with compassion and understanding. Judgment does nothing except create more division and more problems for people who really don't need any more. And that's... and you never know what somebody else is dealing with.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (43:09)
Mm-hmm.
No, that's right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:26)
So you want to where you can be that thing that shines some more light, not pushes them deeper into that big black hole.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (43:37)
Exactly, exactly. I think education is really important because with education comes knowledge and with knowledge comes understanding and with understanding comes compassion. So, you know, I don't think there's any person on this planet who is not affected by ADHD in some way, whether it's your child or somebody you know, or everybody knows someone. Go and learn a little bit more about it. Go and see the nuances of
of what it looks like and become that person ⁓ who's understanding and curious, know, tell me more, how does it feel, you know, when this happens? ⁓ And with curiosity from the other person, you know, comes honesty and ⁓ then going back to your belonging thing.
because people are accepting you. They're trying to understand why do you do what you do? God, the fact that you've missed my birthday for the sixth year in a row is really upsetting me. And if you explain why I could get an app in place, but geez, I'm terrible with birthdays. Absolutely shocking. Thank God for ⁓ Facebook to remind me.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (44:51)
Hey, Facebook didn't tell us when they were. Yep.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (44:53)
It'd be beyond me. And I did try other apps. When
I turned the apps off because I had all the notifications, I do try. I really do try. I want to do the best, but yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (45:04)
Yeah, that, and it happens to a lot of us. If something's not exactly in our face, we forget about it. Or if it's not immediately something I need to focus on, then I get, or it pops into my brain five minutes too late. Or you think about it way before. Yeah.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (45:21)
yes or it pops in and pops straight backwards yeah
yeah yeah yeah now that's and
Sarah Jordan-Ross (45:29)
Yeah, forgetting
people's birthdays is not always deliberate.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (45:33)
No, it is not deliberate. You know, we still love you all. We just, you know, getting it together to get a present or a card or a note to you. And then I'd go, right, I need to get in touch with this person. And then another tab will open and then I get distracted and I'm down that rabbit hole. And I had every intention to do that, but you know, I got distracted. A shiny, shiny object came up or a new idea or...
because I've got so many ideas going on, know, sometimes just going, whoa Debbie, you know, ⁓ settle yourself a bit.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (46:11)
the way our whole world works at the moment ⁓ is that there's so many things happening and so many choices and television, social media, all of those things. It's no wonder that a whole bunch of us have the attention span of gnats because it used to be that the space between
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (46:23)
Yes.
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (46:41)
Ad breaks on a television show?
And most of us could focus specifically for about that 15, 20 minutes.
⁓ I don't know about you, but on most streaming services or if you're playing a game or something, ads pop up what feels like every 10 seconds. So, and we're constantly being bombarded by all this information. And it's, it's hard for anybody to keep it.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (47:00)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (47:09)
To keep all of their ducks in a row and to keep everything going the way that it should when you have a biological condition that your brain works that little bit different, it makes it harder. It's already hard for people to focus then you add this extra thing. We need to be a bit kinder about that, I think.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (47:12)
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah. And you know, for people with ADHD, going from focus to distraction, listening, and then back in is very difficult. Not always, but it's one of those things that's delayed. if you haven't got ADHD, you can be focusing on something, someone can distract you, and then you can very quickly come back to that focus again. Now the ADHD brain, switching between these two networks, right?
is much more challenging. So you start working, then you get distracted, it's very difficult to come back in again. So if you're using, know, and our world, as you said, has got so many distractions, it's another thing that makes it more difficult with ADHD brains, because we're expected to come straight back, and our brains are not designed that way. So I've just said to my children and, you know, to the kids that I teach is really protect yourself ⁓ from... ⁓
when you're working, put your phones away, put things away, take it to the other room so you cannot pick it up. Because if you don't, you will be distracted like everybody else will, but they will be able to go back to the work and you won't. So you've got to protect your environment, just like you're setting yourself up for good sleep, for good exercise, for your microbiome, you also need to protect your environment and you need to decide.
and put the boundaries around, you know, protect you and your brain. I think that's really important.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (49:03)
Thanks.
So is there any other encouragement you can give to parents? Well, particularly parents, but also anyone with ADHD. If you're overwhelmed or wondering if you if they're getting it right and they're having trouble sleeping because they're doing the whole, am I getting it right? Because that's one of the things that every parent
That's the, am I getting it right? And basic parenting, things. Some days we absolutely rock it and get everything right and the other days, parenthood kicks our ass.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (49:44)
Absolutely. Look, I think being an advocate for your child is really important and accepting that they're all different and accepting that ⁓ whatever their ADHD looks like, accepting it and really, really understanding it. I think that's the most important is because when they understand they can support and then being their biggest advocate, encouraging them to
Sarah Jordan-Ross (49:45)
So.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (50:13)
to do things that interest them. Even if it's something a little bit weird for you, encourage them, be their biggest supporter in that. Have the boundaries, make sure that they're sleeping well. Particularly if you've got lots of energy and you're playing a game, you don't want to go to bed. But it's up to the parents to put those guardrails in because they know the importance of those foundations.
Be okay to get resistance and know why you're doing it. And I guess the most important is the child feels seen for who they are and not expected to be something that they're not because ⁓ then they learn to know that they're fine and you don't have this feeling later on of there's something wrong with me, I'm broken, I need to be like this, I need to mask. ⁓ Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:04)
Sorry.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (51:05)
It's alright.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:06)
I just get you to say that one again.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (51:08)
Sure, ⁓ where was I? was going, ⁓ yeah, the most important thing is, yeah, the most important thing is, you know, for them to be seen, to be really seen and to be valued ⁓ for who they are, not parents' expectations, but who the actual child is. And sometimes there's a mismatch and parents have got to do some deep reflection on what I wanted, what I thought my child would be like and what, you know, what they are. It's something they've got to do.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:13)
that there's nothing wrong with them.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (51:36)
Right, that's work they've got to do on themselves and reflect on that. to really see their child for who they are, not who they want them to be, and be their biggest advocate, support them, and also be the person who puts the guardrails around to make sure that all those foundational things are there supporting them as much. And it's like any parenting, can it ever be perfect? Absolutely not. You know, I asked my kids, did you, you know, did you feel loved? And they said, we felt so loved. And I went, well,
if they feel loved and seen. The other stuff, you know, we do the best we can with the tools we have, don't we? On the whole.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (52:15)
Yes. And on the whole, as long as they feel... Yeah. Yes.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (52:17)
and be kind to yourself as a parent.
Be kind to yourself,
cut yourself some slack, you're doing the best that you can and if you feel you need new skills, you know there's so many places to go, go and get those skills.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (52:31)
because there's always more to learn and there's places out there that do actually want to help and I know Debbie has a great resource for ADHD so do you want to tell us a little bit about that?
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (52:47)
Sure, I've got a website and it's got a load of videos on and it takes you through ⁓ what ADHD is, what it looks like and then the second one is all about ⁓ the ways of managing it. So there's a section on medication, not a huge amount because I'm not a qualified ⁓ medical person but there's some background information. So it's not going to give you any information on what...
tablets to take but it's more like what happens and you know how long it takes to to get it right and then there's a big section on why exercise is so important so it explains exactly what's happening in your brain it gives you an idea of why sleep you know so instead of going well there is a sleep issue but why is it happening what's happening in the brain because I think with understanding ⁓ it really helps and then the and then the last one is what can we do what are if you what are some of the ⁓
real super powers and how can we really lean into those. So there's a lot of information. And then there's a chat AI, it's called advantage chat AI. And it's like chat GPT, I guess, but what it's been curated from is just expert material. ⁓ not someone else's idea of what ADHD is. These are published reports, ⁓ professionals, et cetera, et cetera.
You can go in there and ask any question you like. You can go in there and say, you know, my eight year old child is really struggling with sleep. I've tried this, this, this, and this. What else can you suggest? It will go to the database of all the thousands, hundreds of thousands of bits of information, and it will come up with some suggestions. And then when you see the suggestion, there will be a reference to where it came from. So if you wanted to go into that report and learn more about whatever it is, you can just click in there and will tell you more about that.
So that's really helpful and it's, you know that the information you're getting is ⁓ accurate, it's timely and it's from, you know, it's from professionals who know what they're talking about.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (54:46)
really helped.
And for research geeks like me, it's a great thing because yes, I can ask my questions and then if I want to go deeper into those questions or deeper into the answers, I can then look up the people who did the research and find out all of that as well. it's really helpful.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (54:59)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. ⁓
Exactly. And the other thing I do is,
yeah, and the other thing I do is I do a lot of professional development training for teachers as well, mainly in the Queensland schools, but going in to schools to just do an overview of what ADHD looks like in the classroom and then give them some actual strategies that can have a really big impact straight away. So I do that as well.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (55:38)
Which is, yeah, that is really great. And I might pick your brain at a later point for some strategies to share with Jackson's teacher because she actually said, like, I told her something that I'd noticed that that helps him. And she said, if you've got anything else like that, that works for him, please let me know. So for parents, your teachers want to know how they can help you. So help them help you.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (56:05)
Exactly, exactly.
chat, know, that ⁓ advantage chat AI will be a really great start as well. And just like everything else, it's not the magic bullet, you know, like we talked about sleep and ⁓ exercise and getting your microbiome sorted. You know, the teacher strategies are also the very obvious, simple one, routines that the kid knows every day, this is what it's going to look like. You know, there's no ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (56:20)
Yeah.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (56:35)
magic unicorns and know fairies it's the it's the consistency of some of those we already know those strategies but it's a consistency of it. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (56:46)
of using them and using them consistently and giving them a chance to work not the I tried it for two days and it didn't work so in two days nothing's going to
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (56:56)
Yep, and that... No,
no, absolutely not. know, most of the schools I work with, it takes a couple of weeks to get a new strategy. And yeah, there's a little bit of resistance sometimes depending on the age of the, you know, because I work with, you know, primary and secondary school. And, you know, when you introduce a new thing into a year 10 class, there's a little bit of resistance. But once they understand why you're doing it and it's done consistently, they go, right, that's what's happening. That's what's happening.
You know, particularly ADHD brains, like that consistency in that routine and it actually doesn't just benefit them, it benefits the whole class. So it's not like you're doing something special for them, you're doing something to help everybody.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (57:39)
Thank you, thank you so much for being here today for all your amazing insights and offered real hope at least to this ADHD mum. So thank you for that. I know it's going to make a difference to a lot of parents and to our listeners. If today's episode encouraged you, helped you to feel seen or gave you something helpful to use, then please share it.
Share it with a friend, share it with a teacher, a family member, or that mum that you see who's doing her best at the school gate. Give her a little encouragement and share it with her. Because you never know when sharing your story could be the thing that makes a difference to somebody else. So just remember your story matters, your experience.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (58:31)
Absolutely.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (58:36)
matters and your voice might be the thing that makes a difference to somebody else and helps them feel less alone.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (58:44)
Beautiful. That's a lovely way of putting it, Sarah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (58:47)
Yeah. Well, this has been Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast where we break the silence, foster hope and talk about the tough stuff so you never feel alone. Until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other and remember your story matters. So tell it, speak bravely and remember you've got this and you're not alone. Bye for now and thank you again, Debbie, for joining us.
Debbie Thompson (ADD-Vantage) (59:16)
Thank
you. Thank you for the opportunity.