In this beautifully grounded episode, Sarah sits down with Nic Hutson—mentor, guide, and woman of deep faith—for a heartfelt conversation on grief, waiting seasons, divine alignment, and the messy magic of motherhood. Nic shares raw reflections on letting go of control, finding strength in surrender, and choosing peace over pressure. Whether you’re in a wilderness season or navigating your next leap of faith, this is a soul-hug you didn’t know you needed.
“I was so used to being in control of everything. And then suddenly, I had no control. That broke me open in the best way.” – Nic Hutson
“Sometimes the most powerful move you can make is to wait… not from fear, but from trust.” – Sarah Jordan-Ross
“When I stopped striving, I could finally hear what God was really saying.” – Nic Hutson
Nic Hutson – Speaker, coach, and spiritual mentor known for guiding women through transformational life seasons with grace, faith, and authenticity.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:01) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah. I'm Sarah Jordan Ross and Taboo Talk is a space where we have raw, healing conversations about all the stuff we're not supposed to talk about. Whether it's trauma, grief, neurodivergence, faith, burnout, or just the messy middle stuff that happens in between. We talk about the tough stuff so you never have to feel alone and today I'm joined by Nick Hudson.
A woman whose story feels especially close to the hearts of many in our community. Nick has a background in HR and corporate resilience coaching. But what makes her story so powerful is how she turned all of her professional tools onto herself in her own lived experience journey. So after facing all of that and turning everything she knew from neuroscience and NLP, nervous system regulation,
start her own healing, she's now using all of that to help other people. So this conversation isn't corporate strategy, it's about those moments that broke her open, the things she had to unlearn and relearn and what recovery actually looks like when you stop performing wellness and start embodying it. So Nick, thank you so much for being here and for persevering through some tech issues to...
to get on today. I want to start with the version of you who was in the thick of it. So can you paint a picture for what your journey was like from the start when you realised that things weren't quite right and you were heading for burnout and all that stuff that you warned everybody else about.
Nic Hutson (01:50)
Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me, Sarah. Lovely to be here. And yeah, it's exactly right. I was like many people. was or am a mom. I'm a corporate employee. I am, you know, a wife and a friend and all the things that other people are too. And I spent a lot of my years in corporate HR. So 20 plus years in in.
corporate environments supporting other people. And I think it's really common, especially for people who end up in that kind of space to be everyone else's support and you put yourself last. And that was definitely my story. So I had a young family. We don't tend to go so much with labels, but if we did go with labels, they would have been labeled as neurodiverse or on the spectrum. But... ⁓
Part of my challenges were really around, I was trying to juggle all the things that most people are trying to juggle, corporate life, family life, know, climbing a corporate career, raising children, being a good friend, a good wife, all those things. And all the balls in the air, that's exactly right. And for me, back at that time, this would be 10 or so years ago, before COVID, there was very little balance between corporate and family life.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (02:56)
Keeping all the balls in the air.
Nic Hutson (03:11)
you were expected to leave your personal life at the door when you came to work every single day. And so I had real challenges around the expectations that I had set for myself around what did family life look like. I looked around and I spoke to my friends and my colleagues and they all had a family life that was very different to mine. And I think when there's a disconnect around your expectations and your reality, that's where the challenges can really.
rise. And so that was very true for me. And so for years and years, and it was probably close to four years where I would say I was in active burnout, but just wasn't, I just pushed through and pushed through and pushed through and really wouldn't let myself acknowledge what was actually happening. I was everyone else's support and no one really was there to say, Hey, how are you? And when I did acknowledge that I was in active burnout,
When you finally let yourself realize what is the truth of what's happening, then of course all of the pieces of the puzzle, which I'm sure we'll talk about, you go, okay, that's not normal. It's not normal to sleep in your car and your lunch break. It's not normal, dread going to work every single day. It's not normal to have to push through to lunch, to Christmas, to the end of the week.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:21)
you
No. ⁓
Nic Hutson (04:35)
And when you start to acknowledge those things, that's when you can start to get help and support.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:40)
So you mentioned the catching a nap in your car at lunch because you were just that exhausted. Was there other moments that had you going, nah, this isn't normal. Something has got to shift. And what did you start to do when you started making those shifts? So you had that, this is not normal. This is not how things should be. And more the, it's not how you want things to be either. What did you do?
Nic Hutson (04:59)
when
Yeah.
Yeah, were probably, honestly, there were probably a couple of situations where I was thinking, something's really got to shift. And the first one that comes to mind was my eldest son was in his last year of primary school and he was saying, you know, hey, mum, it's swimming carnival today. Are you coming to swimming carnival? And I had to turn around and say, you know, sorry, bud, mum's got to work.
because at that time in life, you couldn't really juggle work and family. It was expected that you were always on in corporate. And his little heart broke, my heart broke. And I just thought, this is ridiculous. We shouldn't be expected to choose one over the other. And it's that tension between your expectations and the reality that often creates that charge within you that starts some of those burnout behaviors. So that was definitely one of the key signs.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:43)
Yeah.
Nic Hutson (06:05)
I think, you know, when I really stop and acknowledge things like taking five minute naps in the bathroom or in my car to get through or surviving on coffee and adrenaline and all those sorts of symptoms that happen when you're in burnout that you push away and push away and just say, well, everyone's, everyone's busy and this is normal when really, you know,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:27)
and down to 10 cups of coffee a day, don't they?
Nic Hutson (06:30)
Oh, surely everybody has to, yeah, has to peel themselves out of bed every morning. And it's just not true. It shouldn't be like that. But really for me, I would say it was the start of when some of the new legislation was coming through around psychosocial hazards.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:48)
Hang on.
Nic Hutson (06:50)
So really one of the other symptoms for me or the other key ⁓ milestones for me to realise as in burnout, it's probably around the stage where the new legislation was coming on board with regards to psychosocial safety in the workplace. And I watched a burnout webinar and I literally went tick, tick, tick, tick. I have all of the symptoms of burnout.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:50)
So really what are the other symptoms for me or the other thing?
around the stage where the new legislation was coming on board with regards to psychosocial safety in the workplace and I watched it burn out.
I had all of the symptoms of burnout.
Nic Hutson (07:12)
And just hearing somebody else call it out and say, hey, this isn't normal. This isn't what everyone should be going through. And for me to acknowledge that I had all of the symptoms and more, and really had had them for many years, was enough for me to go, ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:12)
Just hearing somebody else call it out and say, hey, this isn't normal, this isn't what everyone should be going through, and for me to acknowledge that I had all of the symptoms and more, and really had had them for many years, was enough for me to go.
Nic Hutson (07:29)
okay, I can't hide from this anymore. I can't push through anymore and expect it to be normal. And something's got to shift.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:31)
anymore. I can't push through anymore and expect it to be normal and something's got to
shift. And then think the third thing for me would be I wouldn't sit on the bus or I'd be in a cafe and I wouldn't look around and people would be laughing and they'd be talking to their friends and joking and experiencing joy in their life. And I would look at them and think I cannot understand how people could have been feeling like that because I didn't feel like that.
Nic Hutson (07:39)
And then I think the third thing for me would be I would sit on the bus or I'd be in a cafe and I would look around and people would be laughing and they'd be ⁓ talking to their friends and joking and experiencing joy in their life. And I would look at them and think, I cannot understand how people can feel like that because I didn't feel like that. I
felt numb, felt disconnected, I felt empty, I was exhausted. And it really made me reassess that
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:00)
And I felt numb, felt discredited, felt empty, I was exhausted, and it really made me reassess
Nic Hutson (08:08)
how I was living my life, how I was showing up in the world and what I was valuing as important and I knew something had to shift.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:09)
that how I was living life, how I was showing the world what I was valuing as important, how I knew something had to shift.
Nic Hutson (08:17)
So they were really the three key things for me and that along with some health issues. So you know when you don't listen to the cues for years and years and years and some people it might just be months or weeks. For other people for me it was years and years it took me to listen to the cues.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:18)
So they were really the three key things for me and that along with some health issues. when you don't listen to the cues, the news and news and news, and some people it might just be months or weeks. For other people, for me it was years and years, it took me to listen to the
cues. But literally my body was screaming out at me saying, if you don't stop, I'm gonna stop you. So I had lots of...
Nic Hutson (08:36)
But literally my body was screaming out at me saying, if you don't stop, I'm going to stop you. So I had lots of health
things popping up and it got as bad as panic attacks and anxiety at work for me to go, hey, this isn't normal. And to do something about it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:44)
Because that's the thing.
So often we ignore the whispers and we push through until everything in us has no choice but to scream its head off at us and then we actually pay attention.
Nic Hutson (09:10)
Yeah, it's so true. Your body will
whisper. If we don't listen to the whispers, it will start to shout. If you don't listen to those, I was one of those people that just thought that was normal and pushed through and pushed through. And it literally got to some fairly serious health issues for me to stop and say no more. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:15)
listen to the wishbone people start to shout. Yep.
And it literally got to some really serious health issues for me to stop and save.
So then because you had all of that professional experience at your fingertips, but did they come a point where it's like, if it was anybody else, I'd know exactly what to tell them exactly what to do, but because it's me, I'm having trouble with that. And then when did you actually start using all of that stuff that you knew to help yourself? Because sometimes that's the hardest thing. It's not.
Nic Hutson (09:56)
Thank you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:01)
that you don't know what to do, it's actually doing what you know to do.
Nic Hutson (10:05)
Yeah, that's exactly right. I think part of it is just being wired to be the people pleaser and to be everybody else's support mechanism and not knowing how to do that for yourself. having to unlearn some of those patterns and behaviours that I'd carried with me and that many of us carry with us for years or decades or our whole lives. So part of it was unlearning that. Part of it was giving it that acknowledgement that I actually was in burnout.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:09)
being wired to be the people-pleaser and to be everybody else's support mechanism and not knowing how to do that for yourself. having to unlearn some of those patterns and behaviours that I've carried with me and that many of us carry with us for years or decades or
Nic Hutson (10:34)
and really going through a bit of grief and almost, I don't know, shame or embarrassment about having, being in burnout. So here am I, I'm this senior corporate executive, this leader that people rely on to, you know, support and give advice. And yet I had this feeling like if I actually really was in burnout, that that was a failure. But getting past that and knowing that it can happen to everybody, it can happen to anybody and
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:59)
It can happen to everybody, it can happen to anybody and
Nic Hutson (11:03)
all you need to do is recognise those symptoms and take the steps because nobody wants to live like that. Like it's a horrible way to live. So once I finally did that, I think that was part of the journey. And it was learning things like, you know, really understanding that it is, it doesn't have to be, you know,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:03)
all you need to do is recognise those symptoms and take the steps because nobody wants to live like that. No. I'm Once I finally did that I think that was part of the journey and it was learning things like, you know, really understanding that it is, it doesn't have to be.
and spending weeks or months or some of the things that we can do to get out of burnout are very
Nic Hutson (11:25)
spending, you know, weeks or months or some of the things that we can do to get out of burnout are very simple.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:32)
simple, quick things that you can do daily. It's around repetition and consistency more than anything else and really being able to identify what thoughts are happening. One of those 70,000 thoughts that we have every single day, what is the dialogue that we've got in our head? Those are the things that build the patterns.
Nic Hutson (11:33)
quick things that you can do daily. So it's around repetition and consistency more than anything else and really being able to identify what thoughts are happening. What are those of those 70,000 thoughts that we have every single day? What is the dialogue that we've got in our head? Because those are the things that build the patterns
and the patterns determine the behaviors around how we show up in our world. So something as simple as being able to feel
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:54)
determine the behaviors around how we show up in our world. something as simple as being able to
feel a sensation and go, oh that's not right, that's a warning signal from the body that I'm in fight or flight or that I'm in stress or and then knowing what's the thought pattern that's sitting behind that and you don't have to live by those thoughts that we have every single day. You can change them to be more empowered thoughts that serve you.
Nic Hutson (12:01)
a sensation and go, that's not right. That's a warning signal from my body that I'm in fight or flight or that I'm in stress or, and then knowing, what's the thought pattern that's sitting behind that? And you don't have to live by those thoughts that we have every single day. You can change them to be more empowered thoughts that serve you. And the
more we do something as simple as that, we're actually rewiring our neural pathways within our brain to show up as a different person.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:22)
And the more we do something as simple as that, we're actually rewiring our neural pathways in our brain to show up as a different
person. So it's actually very simple, easy things that you can do. And for me, was understanding that I had choice. I can choose in this minute to change the way I show up in my life and understanding that I had the control and the choice was going to change.
Nic Hutson (12:30)
So it's actually very simple, easy things that you can do. And for me, it was understanding that I had choice. I can choose in this minute to change the way I show up in my life and understanding that I had the control on the choice was game changing for me.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:49)
Yeah, that you can feel that, but you don't have to stay stuck in that feeling. You can shift it. can change it. And you mentioned before there was a grief that went with your journey. Because sometimes it's that you mentioned you felt like if you were in burnout, then that was a failure.
Nic Hutson (12:54)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly right. think I had, and many of us do this, like I talk to clients every single day and it's a really common thing that we put on this mask of what we want the world to see us as. And by acknowledging that that's not really how it is, there can be shame or there can be embarrassment or there could be guilt around saying, well, that's actually not really what my life's like. I had painted this picture for the world that I was.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:25)
And by acknowledging that that's not really how it is, there can be shame, can be embarrassment, or can be guilt around saying, that's actually not really what my life's like. I had painted this picture for the world that
I was this successful corporate executive, and I had the perfect family, and I had the perfect life, and everything was perfect. And inside, I just didn't feel like that. I felt in chaos, and I felt disconnected, and I felt...
Nic Hutson (13:39)
this successful corporate executive and I had the perfect family and I had the perfect life and everything was perfect and inside I just didn't feel like that. I felt in chaos and I felt disconnected and I felt numb
and I felt exhausted. So there was a process to go through to clear the shame around that and to acknowledge that we all have.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:53)
felt exhausted. there was a process to go through to clear the shame around that and to acknowledge that we all have,
Nic Hutson (14:05)
We all wear masks from time to time and it's okay. And we should be living our authentic selves and showing up who we really are and reconnecting with the things that bring us joy and purpose and help us feel connected and all
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:05)
we all wear masks from time to time and it's okay and we should be living our authentic selves and showing up who we really are and reconnecting with the things that bring us joy and purpose and we're still connected.
Nic Hutson (14:21)
of those good things.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:23)
That being who we really are, not just that face that we put out to the world. And so often, who we are gets lost in that taking care of everybody else and being everything for everyone and fitting into that image that we're supposed to have of what it looks like to be a successful woman in the corporate arena.
Nic Hutson (14:50)
And that's part of where the exhaustion comes from. So when you're living in a disconnection from who you really are, who you really want to show up as, it's actually exhausting wearing that mask all the time. So part of that, and a lot of people who I talk to come to me from the energy perspective, like I'm so tired, I don't know how to get out of this because the exhaustion is just overwhelming. And part of that's that disconnection between
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:55)
Mmm.
who you really are, who you really want to show up as. He's actually supposed to be wearing that mask.
Nic Hutson (15:18)
not showing up as who you authentically are.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:21)
And it's the, yeah, not being who you are, but also carrying the weight of that mask, it gets really heavy.
Nic Hutson (15:30)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:31)
And sometimes
we just need to be able to find that space where we can take it off, when we can reconnect to who we are and then start functioning from that. So do you look at success and capacity and strength differently now from that other side of burnout to what you did before?
Nic Hutson (15:55)
100 % and I think that's such a big part of the journey is the more we can look at how do we define our identity and is that truly who you are. So I had very much tied my identity to this idea that I was this corporate executive and I was you know all the things that I used to do to serve others and that was how I identified myself but
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:57)
stage.
about how do we define our identity and is that truly for you?
to this idea that I was this corporate executive and I was, you all the things that I used to do to serve others and that was how I identified myself. But
when you're identifying with someone who pushes through, you know, doesn't look after themselves, who puts everybody before yourself, you know, those things are not healthy ways to identify. So really stopping and being what...
Nic Hutson (16:23)
when you're identifying with someone who pushes through, you know, doesn't look after themselves, who puts everybody before yourself, you know, those things are not healthy ways to identify. And so really stopping and being like crystal
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:40)
crystal clear with what's the identity that I've built for myself and does that serve me? And if it does, then great. But if it doesn't,
Nic Hutson (16:40)
clear with what's the identity that I've built for myself and does that serve me? And if it does serve you, great, but if it doesn't.
really looking at, well, what are the patterns and the beliefs that sit behind that identity? Like, why is that important to me? And what do I value in my life? And if you need to shift that, then you shift it. And that was a big part of my journey was to shifting how I saw myself as adding value to the world and, you know,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:49)
really looking at, what are the patterns of the beliefs that sit behind that identity? Like, why is that important to me? And what do I value in my life? And if you need to shift that, then you shift it. And that was a big part of my journey was to shift in how I saw myself as earning value to the world. And you know,
Nic Hutson (17:10)
disconnecting with the identity of having to be this corporate executive successful, you know, career woman.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:10)
disconnecting with the identity of having to be this popular and successful career woman.
Nic Hutson (17:18)
around the things that actually really mattered.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:19)
One of the things that actually really matters.
slightly older when I became a mum and I had that big shift like, work Sarah, how does she get together? She knew what she was doing. This tiny little baby brought me undone. Cause it's like, hang on, there's no rule book for this. There's hammer. And my mum was sick at the time too. So I had that, shifting of roles and it does change how you see yourself.
Nic Hutson (17:52)
Yeah
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:52)
or
what you're wanting to do. And I know with sometimes it's like, yeah, you played that role for ⁓ a certain amount of time and it fitted you really well. But if it doesn't fit you anymore, it's okay to put it down and change what you're doing. Same as you can. The goal doesn't necessarily have to change, but you can move the goalpost.
Nic Hutson (18:02)
and
Yeah
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:21)
You don't have to keep
all of those things the same. So you've shifted how you've how you help people. So what does that look like for you now rather than that?
Nic Hutson (18:31)
Mmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:35)
helping people from because that was what was expected or you were doing the people pleasing thing which is so easy for so many of us get really caught up in that one. But now you're helping others in a way that lights you up. So what's the difference?
Nic Hutson (18:43)
Yes! ⁓
Yeah, exactly.
think a lot of it is around ⁓ really connecting with a strong sense of purpose. And at one stage I used to get that sense of purpose in a different way. And now for me, if I look back to when I first really discovered or acknowledged that I was in burnout, I went looking for a burnout coach and I couldn't find one at the time. So I feel really passionate now around helping other people.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:11)
I went looking for a burnout.
people
Nic Hutson (19:21)
who are in a similar situation to me, to give them the tools and the strategies and the guidelines to know that they actually have the answers within them and they just need some help to unravel.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:22)
who are in a similar situation to me to give them the tools and the strategies and the guidelines to know that they actually have the answers within them and they just need some help to unravel what are those patterns and those thoughts and those beliefs and are they serving you or not and if they're not, how do you change that?
Nic Hutson (19:36)
you know, what are those patterns and those thoughts and those beliefs and are they serving you or not? And if they're not, how do you change that? And to give people those tools
and techniques around really rewiring the neural pathways within your brain to think in a different way and to show up in a different way and to clear away the things that aren't serving you to allow space.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:50)
think in a different way and to show up in a different way and to clear away the things that aren't serving you to allow space
Nic Hutson (19:57)
in for some of those amazing things. most of the time I'm talking to lots of really highly driven, know, corporate professional people who ⁓ have all of these goals and dreams that they want to create and they feel disconnected from them. And the more that we can clear away the things that aren't serving them, it allows space for those new goals and dreams to
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:57)
in for some of those amazing things. most of the time I'm talking to lots of really highly driven, know, corporate professional people who have all of these goals and dreams that they want to create and they feel disconnected from them. And the more that we can clear away the things that aren't serving them, allow space for those new goals and
Nic Hutson (20:19)
have somewhere to sit and to be. a, yeah, it's really powerful work. So, love it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:26)
You became what you needed in that space, which is really cool.
Nic Hutson (20:31)
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:35)
Now, lots of people get into burnout in really subtle ways or not even like you didn't realize that that's where they were heading at the time. Now, a lot of people that listen are parents of neurodivergent kids or their carers in some way or another because a lot of us are in that, that
fun generation called the sandwich generation, have elderly parents who are needing help and support. And we have little kids who also need help and support and neurodivergence is a whole other, whole other conversation to have the struggles that can be part of being carer there. But carers quite often are silent in that burnout. I've seen it more so with
Nic Hutson (21:12)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:31)
carers of dementia sufferers that the carer ends up needing care because they've been focused so much on the person that they're caring for that they forget about themselves. And it's one of those roles where there isn't any sick leave and there's no holidays, no awards, no recognition in so many ways.
Nic Hutson (21:33)
Yep.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:57)
they're just constantly giving. So what would you say to somebody who's in that space that they're absolutely exhausted, but they feel like there's no way out of that?
Nic Hutson (22:08)
Yeah, I think that that feeling of being stuck and having no
choice is a really common one. And I guess I would say that you may not be able to change the situation you're in, but you can change how you relate to it. So that would be the first thing. So again, noticing what is the dialogue that you've got around your situation. So is it things like I'm the only person who can help or, ⁓ you know, I can't stop.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:18)
you know to change the situation you're in but you can change how you relate to it. So that would be the first thing. again, noticing what is the dialogue that you've got around your situation. So is it things like I'm the only person who can help or you know I can't stop
Nic Hutson (22:38)
or you're getting crystal clear on what's the dialogue or the pattern that you're writing or the story that you're telling yourself at that time
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:38)
or you really be getting crystal clear on what's the dialogue or the pattern that you're running or the story that you're telling yourself.
Nic Hutson (22:47)
and is it really true and what could be an alternate story that could still serve you. So if it's I have to do everything myself, well is that really true and are you open to help when help is presented or are you...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:02)
Yeah. ⁓
Nic Hutson (23:04)
you know, telling yourself the story that you are the only one who can carry this. And I'm talking about myself here. you know, growing up with like bringing up a young family who had lots of different challenges. I had a story running that, well, I was the only one who could be there to do that. Even though I had support all around me when I stopped and would accept that help.
So think that would be the first thing is to be really clear on what stories
are you telling yourself around that. And even simple things like, ⁓ you know, gratitude. So for me, a big turning point was switching that gratitude back on. Like I...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:35)
And even simple things like gratitude. So for me, the big turning point was switching that gratitude back on. Like
I love just being outside in the fresh air and feeling the feeling of sun on my back. Like just acknowledging the really simple things or seeing the beautiful sunset and like where do you really feel the emotion of how that makes you feel? It's cause so-
Nic Hutson (23:44)
I love just being outside in the fresh air and feeling the feeling of sun on my back. Like just acknowledging the really simple things or seeing a beautiful sun sesh like letting you really feel the emotion of how that makes you feel. Because so often when we're
caring for other people you put your own emotions, the good ones and the bad ones, you push them away. So really reconnecting with how you're feeling in that moment and it's okay to feel the emotions, good and bad.
and working through those.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:18)
Because if you can feel it, you can heal it. I know it sounds cliched, and sometimes it is that getting back in touch with what your emotions are.
are, especially when you've shoved them down or pushed them away for so long that you don't even recognize what any particular feeling is. And they sometimes take you by surprise.
Nic Hutson (24:41)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's so true. we can become really, our bodies can almost become addicted to even the negative emotions. It's the chemical process that happens in our body that rewires us into that old state and that old story. So there is a process around repetition and consistency to build a new neural pathway in our brain to show up in a different way. And it sounds like a really hard thing to do, but it is really simple things like
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:42)
bit.
to even the negative emotions. It's the chemical process that happens in our body that rewires us into...
So there is a process around repetition and consistency to build a new neural
It sounds like a really hard thing to do, but it is really simple.
Nic Hutson (25:12)
catching that thought and working out if it's serving you or not. And if it's not, absolutely flip it to what would the opposite thought of that be and find a really powerful thought. And every time you catch yourself saying, you're not good enough, you can't do this, this is hard, switching it to the most powerful opposite of that that you can. And it may not feel.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:21)
and find a really powerful thought. And every time you catch yourself saying, you're not good enough, you can't do this, this is hard, switching it to the most powerful option that you can. And it may not feel
real to you at the start, but the more that you can do that, the more your brain starts to believe that you've patterned the thinking and then you actually do what you
Nic Hutson (25:36)
real to you at the start, but the more that you can do that, the more your brain starts to believe the new pattern of thinking and then you actually wire that into
your brain in a different way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:46)
And especially when you do little things like, like with that new thought, the how do know it's true? Or even with the old thoughts, how do you know that's true? Is it still true? Is it actually serving you? And if it's not, yeah, switching to that, that opposite thought and doing things. Cause our brain is, it's wired to keep us safe. That's what our stress responses is all about. And
Whatever you're saying, your system will look for evidence to prove that whatever it is you're thinking is true. So if you can find the, well, that's true because when I do that, this happens and follow that through, you can then shift that thought that doesn't serve you, can shift it to that better one by finding where it's true.
Nic Hutson (26:24)
Yes.
Bye.
Exactly right. We're probably going to nerd out a little bit now, but there is that little part in your brain called the reticular activating system and you're exactly right. It will scan the world and it will look for evidence to support whatever you believe. So if you believe something that's not serving you, it'll find evidence to say, see, you're not good enough. You can't do it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:59)
And another. ⁓
Nic Hutson (27:01)
But equally, if you believe that you can do it and you're strong and you're powerful and you've got the resources, the reticular activating system will also scan the world and give you examples of that too. knowing that there's actual science behind this around how we think and how we can change how we think to show up in a different way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:26)
geeky thing, geek out thing that we could do is that whole neuroplasticity. So just because it's always been a certain way doesn't mean it has to stay that way. Our brain restructures itself quite well.
Nic Hutson (27:39)
Yeah, an analogy that I love is like if you think about when you've lived and shown up in a certain way for weeks or months or years, the brain wires together and it's like a super highway. So if you think about like a six lane highway with all the cars on it and so your brain knows that that's the way to get from A to B. But when you're starting to reprogram and think in a different way, it's a bit like having to kind of
know, beat your way through the bushes to make a new path. And at the start, yeah, a new route. At the start, it's not always easy, but the more you can take that new path, the stronger that path will be built. And eventually that becomes strong like that super highway and that old way of thinking will degrade and break away and you won't think like that anymore. So it's just...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:10)
Feel the new road.
So it's just
be really conscious to your thoughts and how you're showing up and really, as you were saying, testing those beliefs and something pops up and go, was that really true? If it was different to that.
Nic Hutson (28:32)
⁓ being really conscious to your thoughts and how you're showing up and you know really as you were saying testing those beliefs when something pops up for you going well is that really true? What would if it was different to that how would
it look and feel? How would I feel if I showed up in a different way today? And the more you can do that you can rewire that new pathway.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:53)
So the, I have to do everything myself, I'm the only one who can do it? Well what if instead of thinking you're the only one who can do it, you went, there's always help around me when I need it, I just have to accept it. Because sometimes it's that asking for help that we find tricky, but it's also the accepting help when it's given.
not do that. No, I can do it. I'll be right. And sometimes you can, but sometimes you do need that help and it's okay to to say that and to say that, okay, they might not do it exactly the same way that you would, but that can be okay too. Yes, that's what I going to say something very simple last time.
Nic Hutson (29:23)
Yeah.
Yeah. ⁓
Cheers.
Yes, I was going to say something very similar. we can
often find ourselves saying, well, you know, I could accept this help, but they'll do it slightly different to me. But that's actually OK. You know, at the end of the day, it's OK. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, some way
my way or the highway does not work.
Nic Hutson (29:59)
That's for not.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:03)
Okay, so if you could pass on just one insight from your journey to somebody who's in that burnout or even just catching themselves heading into burnout, what would you say?
Nic Hutson (30:21)
Look, I think it would definitely be around realising that we always have choice. Even in the most tricky, most challenging situation where it feels like you're stuck and it feels like there's no other options, there's always options. So just having that understanding that at any moment you can choose to show up in a different way, to think a different thought, to behave in a different way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:22)
definitely be around real...
Nic Hutson (30:49)
Even if it's something very little, all those little incremental changes over time build and they build and they build and they build and making that choice to say, I need help, I'm in burnout, you know, this is not okay. I'm not willing to accept showing up in my life like this anymore. And knowing that you have the choice to make a change, that would be the most powerful thing for me.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:05)
Okay, I'm willing to accept showing up in my life like this anymore. And knowing that you have the choice to make a change, that would be the most powerful thing for me.
Nic Hutson (31:16)
And really we have everything within us to show up differently if we want to. We can choose at any moment to show up as a different version of ourselves and we've got the
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:16)
And really, we have everything within us to show up differently if we want to. We can choose at any moment to show up as a different version of ourselves that we...
Nic Hutson (31:28)
tools within us. Sometimes it just takes a bit of help and support to have someone to be able to show you the way and to sometimes hold the mirror up to things that you can't see in yourself, but we have it innately within us. We're not broken. We don't need to be fixed.
We have all of the tools and the resources within us. We've just got to choose to make a change.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:51)
I love that we
have choice and we're not broken.
that we don't need fixing, we just need to be able to make different and better choices.
Nic Hutson (32:02)
Yeah, yeah. So
it's unlearning all the stuff that we've picked up along the years and coming back to who we really are and our strengths and our power and our choice within the world.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:14)
and giving ourselves permission to be that and to show up as who we really are.
Nic Hutson (32:19)
Yeah, bit of kindness, a of self-compassion and self-kindness. I think it goes a really long way and that's often what's missing. I know for me, everyone else came before me and when you think about giving back to yourself, often you think, no, I can't do that. You can, you definitely can and you show up as a better version of you for all the people who rely on you if you can give yourself a bit of self-compassion.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:20)
Bitcoin is...
Yeah. ⁓
Yes, if you can take as good a care of yourself as you're taking care of others. And something, I've been a massage therapist for 25 years. I've talked to lots of mums and stuff. And always put themselves at the bottom of that priority list. Because taking care of yourself first, that's therefore. Wrong. I like to tell them, have a think about it.
If you collapse in a screaming heat because you haven't been taken care of yourself, what happens to those people that depend on you? Now tell me which is the selfish thing.
Nic Hutson (33:27)
you
So true. It's such a powerful concept, isn't it?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:31)
Yeah, sometimes it's just that we need to shift that way that we're thinking of things or come at it from another angle.
Now, one of the questions I always love to ask is, what's the conversation you think we should be having that we're not?
Nic Hutson (33:49)
Well, I really, think it's around normalising conversations around how you're really feeling. So there's lots of ⁓ support and lots of work in workplaces going into, you know, getting better around having conversations around mental health. And burnout's a great example of that. So I know I spoke a lot around, know, feeling guilt or shame or embarrassment about being in burnout, but the more that we can normalise the fact that
people go through these things, they have these thoughts and these feelings and sometimes you need some support to move forward. That's how we're all gonna improve. And if we're in a workplace scenario or in a family unit or in life in general, the more we can remove the stigma from needing this help and support, the better off everybody will be around.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:20)
things that have these thoughts and these feelings and sometimes you need some support to move forward. That's how we're all going to improve. And if we're in a workplace scenario or in a family unit or in life in general, the more we can remove the stigma from needing this help and support, the better off everybody will be
around.
Nic Hutson (34:46)
⁓
taking those first couple of steps to get that support and to move forward and to be, to show up as a better version of yourself.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:46)
taking those first steps to get that support and to move forward and to be the sharpest and better version of
yourself. Because in similar steps, if we look at the statistics around mental health and particularly with our young people, the fact that so many are on medications for mental health concerns or the fact that our youth suicide rate
is amongst the highest that it's ever been. Those statistics, if nothing else, should tell us that if you are going through those struggles, you're not alone because look at how many other people are there with you. And if we actually had those conversations and did more than the, hey, how you going? That we actually talked about.
Nic Hutson (35:35)
Mmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:44)
How are you really? Yeah, we might see some really big shifts and it's great that we're starting to see it in workplaces that there's not the stigma that there would have been 20 years ago, but it's still there.
Nic Hutson (35:46)
Yeah.
That's right. So I think the more we can talk about it, the more we can normalise feeling some of these feelings and taking the steps to be in a better place, the better off all of our workplaces and all of our different environments will be. And it gives people the, almost the permission. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:09)
Yeah. ⁓
Nic Hutson (36:24)
you know, if they're feeling some of these things but don't want to acknowledge it to say, okay, someone else feels like that too and you can work through it. There are things that you can do. There is a path forward. You know, there are some simple things that I can do to feel better, to show up in a different way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:41)
And that it's okay to say that you're not okay.
Nic Hutson (36:45)
Yeah,
that's right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:47)
You're not okay,
but you'll get there. You just need the help and support and actually being able to find that help and support. So on that note, if people wanted to get in touch with you, how's the best way for them to do that?
Nic Hutson (37:00)
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm pretty active on social media. So I am Nick Hudson, the Corporate Resilience Coach. And you can find me on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok and also connect with me through a couple of different programs. So do one on one coaching and I also do small group coaching. And in a couple of months time, I'm relaunching my new program, which is called the Resilient Leaders Academy. So really looking at helping and supporting leaders in this space.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:02)
So I'm pretty...
That is definitely a program I need to
Nic Hutson (37:30)
in a really supportive small group environment where you're with lots of like-minded people who are going through similar things on the journey and learning and becoming better leaders and better versions of themselves and sharing their knowledge and wisdom at the same time.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:30)
know more about. And we will put all of the ⁓
Nic Hutson (37:49)
Yeah
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:53)
links to Nick in the show notes so that you can connect with her.
And I'd love to thank you for being here today, for your honesty, your insights, for sharing your heart with us. You've modelled really beautifully what it looks like to turn that knowledge into healing. Not just for others, but for yourself and healing yourself first so then you can help others. And your story is a powerful reminder that healing doesn't begin with having all the answers.
It begins with the willingness to apply what we already know gently and consistently to ourselves. And to you listening, if something in today's conversation resonated, please know this, burnout isn't failure. It's a signal. Your capacity doesn't define your worth and you don't have to wait until you reach breaking point to begin healing. You're allowed to respond with care.
This has been Taboo Talk with Sarah. You can find Nick online. We'll put all of those details in the show notes.
Until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and remember, your story matters, so share it. You never know when it might be your story that makes the difference in someone else's life. Bye for now.