In this episode of Taboo Talk, Sarah Jordan-Ross speaks with Deborah Green, a retired 911 dispatcher who shares her journey through trauma, PTSD, and the emotional toll of her career. Deborah discusses her experiences in law enforcement, the impact of her mental health struggles, and her transition to caregiving for her autistic grandson. The conversation highlights the importance of mental health awareness, support for first responders, and the challenges of navigating personal trauma while caring for others.
Takeaways
Sarah Jordan-Ross emphasizes the importance of honest conversations. Deborah Green shares her journey as a 911 dispatcher. The emotional toll of first responding is often overlooked. Deborah's PTSD diagnosis came after years of suppressing trauma. Support groups played a crucial role in Deborah's healing process. The impact of a traumatic incident can be profound and lasting. Coping with grief and PTSD can lead to anger issues. Retirement brought new challenges as a caregiver. Mental health awareness is vital for first responders. Advocacy for better mental health care is essential.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Taboo Talk and Guest Introduction
01:25 Deborah's Journey as a 911 Dispatcher
03:51 The Emotional Toll of First Responding
05:54 Coping with PTSD and Mental Health Challenges
08:51 The Impact of Diagnosis on Healing
09:44 Transitioning to Caregiving for Grandson
Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:00) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast that breaks the silence, fosters hope and talks about the tough stuff so you never feel alone. I'm Sarah Jordan Ross, I'm a mum of three amazing boys, a wellness coach and I've spent the last 25 years or so holding space for real honest conversations. The kind you won't always find on the highlight reel but the ones we really need to have. So here on Taboo Talk we talk deep.
raw, messy, healing conversations that make us feel seen. So whether it's trauma, grief, neurodivergence, faith, burnout, the silent weight of care work, we talk about it all so you know you're not alone. Today's guest is Deborah Green. She's a retired 911 dispatcher with 30 years in law enforcement. Her career is dedicated to serving others in their most critical moments. But behind the scenes,
The toll of that constant stress and exposure to trauma eventually led to her own diagnosis of PTSD and complex PTSD at that. Since retiring, she's become an advocate for better mental health care for first responders and now plays another vital role, full-time caregiver for a four and a half year old autistic grandson. So we've got a bit to talk about.
Deborah's story is one of service, survival and strength that it takes to keep showing up. So I am so glad you're here and yeah, we've got heaps to talk about. let's start with your time as a 911 dispatcher. What drew you to that originally? And what's it like doing that kind of job for 30 years?
Deborah Green (01:38)
Yeah, it's a lot.
⁓ you have to, ⁓ check your sanity at the door.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (01:57)
Check your sanity at the door.
Deborah Green (01:59)
But I started back in...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (02:01)
I started back
in...
Deborah Green (02:02)
I joined the military, the California National Guard here in the States back in 1986 and eventually became a military police officer. ⁓ In 1992, I was hired with Sacramento Police Department as a 911 dispatcher. And so it kind of overlapped my...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (02:03)
I joined the military, California National Guard here in the states back in 1986 and eventually became a military police officer. ⁓ In 1992, I was hired with Sacramento Police Department as a 911 dispatcher. And so I kind of overlapped
my career in the National Guard because National Guard, you do one weekend a month.
Deborah Green (02:28)
my career in the National Guard because National Guard, do one weekend a month, two
weeks a year throughout your, your term of service. And then they can call you up to do all sorts of lovely things like go fight wild, fight wildfires. My deployment actually was at the LA riots. I don't know if you heard about those. So that we call them the.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (02:34)
two weeks a year throughout your, term of service. And then they can call you up to do all sorts of lovely things. Like our reserves here. Yeah. Fight wildfires. my deployment actually was at the LA riots. don't know if you heard about those. You've had a couple of them
over the years. Yes, we have. These were specifically the Rodney King riots. Yep.
Deborah Green (02:58)
Yes, we have. These were specifically the Rodney King riots. ⁓
So that was interesting. So I was at the time going to the Academy to be a dispatcher when I was deployed to Los Angeles. So my, my Academy was a little bit broken up because the military service took precedence over the civilian side. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:05)
So that was interesting. So I was at the time going to the academy to be a dispatcher when I was deployed to Los Angeles. So my academy was a little bit broken up because the military service took precedence over the civilian side.
Deborah Green (03:28)
Right after that I left the military Continued with my civilian service. I was with Sacramento police for about a year they released me on probation because I wasn't a Meeting up to their expectations for a larger department but they suggested I would go to a smaller department and Which I did I got hired with El Dorado County Sheriff, which is just outside of Sacramento
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:28)
Right after that, I left the military, continued with my civilian service. I was with Sacramento Police for about a year. ⁓ They released me on probation because I wasn't meeting up to their expectations for a larger department. But they suggested I would go to a smaller department, which I did. I got hired with El Dorado County Sheriff, which is just outside of
Sacramento.
Deborah Green (03:56)
and
was with them for 27 years.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:57)
and was with them for 27
years. It's a long time in that role, so you would have seen a lot of things. Now, not much gets spoken about the emotional toll that a role like that can take. So when did you start to notice the effect it was having on your own well-being?
Deborah Green (04:00)
So.
Yes.
Um, not right. It's not right away. Um, and, um, when I started, it was in, um, 1992 and the theory or the, the feeling was if you couldn't handle the stress, then you didn't belong in the department. So you just kept stuffing it down and stuffing it down and not letting anybody know that you were hurting. So it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:24)
Not right. It's not right away. And when I started, it was in 1992. And the theory or the feeling was if you couldn't handle the stress, get out, didn't belong in the department. So you just kept stuffing it down and stuffing it down and not letting anybody know that you were hurting. So
it it took a long time.
Deborah Green (04:50)
it took a long time to
have anything show up where I realized something was going on. So in 2015, I had open heart surgery to replace a faulty aortic valve. And I developed what's called post-perfusion syndrome, which is caused by being put on a bypass machine.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:56)
to have anything show up where I realized something was going on. So in 2015, I had open heart surgery to replace a faulty aortic valve. And I developed what's called post-perfusion syndrome, which is caused by being put on a bypass machine.
Deborah Green (05:20)
and what that does.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:20)
Your body just took a little time to catch up to what was going on.
Deborah Green (05:24)
Yes, so everything that I had before that I didn't realize I had before, so all the depression and anxiety and maybe even the PTSD that I didn't realize I had kind of exploded into this horrible monster of a, ⁓ you know, I just, didn't know how to handle it all. Plus having that surgery also causes, ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:24)
Yes, so everything that I had before that I didn't realize I had before, so all the depression and anxiety and maybe even the PTSD that I didn't realize I had kind of exploded into this horrible monster of a, ⁓ you know, I just, didn't know how to handle it all. Plus having that surgery also causes, ⁓
Deborah Green (05:52)
stress on your body because you're having your bones cracked and your chest ripped open and your heart manhandled and all that kind of fun stuff. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:53)
stress on your body because you're having your bones cracked and your chest ripped open and your heart manhandled and all that kind of fun stuff. Yeah it's just a mana thing.
Deborah Green (06:02)
So late 2015, early 2016, I started with a therapist and went to a lot of classes for depression and anxiety that were put on by my health insurance. And I found a weekly support group that I attended faithfully just about every week just so that I could
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:03)
So late 2015, early 2016, I started with a therapist and went to a lot of classes for depression and anxiety that were put on by my health insurance. And I found a weekly support group that I attended faithfully just about every week, just so
that I could.
Deborah Green (06:31)
I guess it was self therapy. I don't know what you want to call it, but it actually did help me, ⁓ you know, kind of deal with things and learn ⁓ techniques to deal with what was going on in my head. ⁓ You know, when people tell you it's in your, it's only in your head. Well, yeah, it is.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:32)
I guess it was self therapy, I don't know what you want to call it, but it actually did help me. You know, kind of deal with things and learn techniques to deal with what was going on in my head. You know, when people tell you it's in your head, it's only in your head. Well, yeah, it is.
That doesn't make it any less real. And then in 2019, they...
Deborah Green (06:54)
Right. And then in 2019, they discontinued
the support group. And that's when I had my my big PTSD incident was in October 23rd of 2019, where I've had a deputy killed while I was working the radio channel, listened to the gunfire and all of that and couldn't come off the radio right away.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:04)
when I had my big PTSI incident was in October 23rd of 2019 where I had a deputy killed while I was working the radio channel. Oh, I listened to the gunfire and all of that and couldn't come off the radio right
away. So I had to, so I, you know, we found out through various means that he had passed at the hospital. So I'm.
Deborah Green (07:24)
So I had to, so I'm, you know, we found out through various means that he had passed at the hospital. So I'm sobbing,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:34)
sobbing, crying, and just trying to control myself, but not letting the guys out in the field that are trying to catch the suspects know anything was wrong. So I, you know, they would transmit, I take a deep breath and answer them and then go back to crying again. So, you know, it was
Deborah Green (07:34)
crying, and just trying to control myself, but not letting the guys out in the field that are trying to catch the suspects know anything was wrong. So I, you know, they would transmit, I take a deep breath and answer them and then go back to crying again. So, you know, it was...
a very traumatic four hours that I went through there. And that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back as
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:54)
a very traumatic four hours that I went through there. And that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
Deborah Green (08:03)
far as my mental health was concerned. So.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:04)
as far as my mental health was concerned.
Possibly because you've been shoving stuff down for so long and pretending everything was okay until suddenly you're faced with this, I can't pretend that any part of this is okay. Exactly. And you know, and I had had those types of incidents throughout my career, but nobody had actually died and I hadn't listened to, you know, traumatic
Deborah Green (08:13)
Exactly.
Exactly. And you know, and I had had those types of incidents throughout my career, but nobody had actually died and I hadn't listened to, you know, the traumatic stuff
that was going on. So, you know, it just kind of built up and built up and built up and then just... Wham-o! There it is. We're done. And...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:33)
stuff that was going on. you know, it just kind of built up and built up and built up and then just wham-o, there it is, we're done.
And a year later I went out on Workman's Comp and my psychiatrist said, nope, you're not able to work anymore. that was what triggered off the retirement. Correct. And just on a side note to that did
Deborah Green (08:43)
A year later, I went out on Workman's Comp and my psychiatrist said, nope, you're not able to work anymore.
Yeah.
Correct.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:01)
Actually getting those diagnoses of you've got post-traumatic stress, there is something very real going on here. Did that make a difference to how you then dealt with it? It took a huge weight off my shoulders. Wondering why I was feeling the way I was and doing the things I was, not realizing, you know, a lot of anger issues came out of that one incident.
Deborah Green (09:13)
It took a huge weight off my shoulders, wondering why I was feeling the way I was and doing the things I was not realizing, you know, a lot of anger issues came out of that one incident. Cause you're
going through grief also, you know, because you lost a friend and a coworker, but you also had that, that PTSI incident. So you're dealing with that and it was just a lot.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:30)
Because you're going through grief also. You know, because you lost a co-worker. But you also had that PTSI incident. So you're dealing with that and it was just
a lot. Yeah. Yes. Too much to take on all at one time. So you retired and that's a huge shift by itself. But after you retired, you then took on the
Deborah Green (09:47)
Exactly. Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:57)
The extra fun extra weight of caregiving for your grandson. So what's that been like?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:05)
So we're over our little technological difficulties, but. I know, oh my god. Okay, so you retired. yes. And then you took on the extra fun role of caring for your grandson. What's that been like?
Deborah Green (10:09)
I know. ⁓ my gosh.
I'll you know, it's... Yes.
Yes.
So ⁓ he was born a month before the psychiatrist signed me off of work onto Workman's Comp. I've basically, and so when I went out on Workman's Comp, I actually started watching him then. So we've been together since he was four weeks old. And it's been quite the roller coaster ride.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:30)
So he was born a month before the psychiatrist signed me off of work on to Workman's Comm. Right. I basically, and so when I went out on Workman's Comm, I actually started watching him then. So we've been together since he was four weeks old. And it's been quite the roller coaster ride. Yeah.
Deborah Green (10:59)
⁓ about six months and when he was about six months old is when I noticed there was something different with him. just kind of wasn't smiling at everybody like normal kids and about six months, you know, they'll grab your face and look at you and kiss you and, and think he wasn't doing that. And, ⁓ just kind of seemed focused on things that turned.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:59)
Yeah, about six months and when he was about six months old is when I noticed There was something different with him. Yeah Just kind of wasn't smiling at everybody like normal kids and about six months, you know They'll grab your face and look at you and kiss you and and think he wasn't doing that and ⁓ Just kind of seeing focused on things
that turn
Deborah Green (11:28)
⁓
lots of car wheels and, ⁓ he would, we had little spinner fidgets that he would play with. So I kind of knew something was off. We weren't quite sure. ⁓ but when he was about two is when we noticed that his, ⁓ verbal skills were way behind. And that's when we started getting the testing done and got his,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:29)
and that's car wheels and he would, had little spinner fidgets that he would play with. So I kind of knew something was off. We weren't quite sure. ⁓ But when he was about two is when we noticed that his verbal skills were way behind. And that's when we started getting the testing done and got his ⁓
Deborah Green (11:56)
diagnosis
this year, finally.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:57)
diagnosis this year finally.
Yeah, diagnosis seems to to take a while. Yes, it does. And caring for a neurodivergent child is its own own special kind of intense roller coaster. So how do you manage navigating all of that and still taking care of yourself because you've got
Deborah Green (12:03)
Yes, it does. ⁓
it is.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:26)
PTSD and you're caring for a neurodivergent child, it's important that you take care of you as well so that you can take care of him. But ⁓ it's a tricky juggle. In the beginning, it was really good because he was a baby and he kind Babies are easy. They were easy. He was easy. know, ⁓ it gave me something to get up in the morning.
Deborah Green (12:39)
It, in the beginning, it was really good because he was a baby and he kind of helped me. They were easy. He was easy. You know, it gave me something to get up in the morning to
go do. It got me outside. So we take walks every morning to get outside, get that natural vitamin D going, you know.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:55)
To go do, it got me outside so we take walks every morning ⁓ to get outside, get that natural vitamin D going.
We go by the park on the way home so that he can get out and run off his little energy. He's got a lot of that. He's a little boy. They all do. Yes.
Deborah Green (13:08)
I would go by the park on the way home so that he can get out and and run off his little little energy because he's got a lot of that. ⁓ But just yes. So
sometimes I don't know, is it because he's a boy? Is it because he's four or is it because as we refer to it, is it the tism?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:25)
So sometimes I don't know, it because he's a boy, is it because he's four, or is it because, as we refer to it, is it fetism?
I love that. You know, you just kind of got to figure out which is which. Yeah. But we- And sometimes it's hard to know. It is. You know, and I raised four boys and a girl, so, you know, it's kind of like, you this, that, you just kind of go, ⁓ it's four. So we're just leaving it at that.
Deborah Green (13:35)
You know, you just kind of got to figure out which is which. ⁓ But we've also he also. It is, you know, and I raised four boys and a girl, so, you know, it's kind of like this. You just kind of go, these four. So I would just leave it at that. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:55)
⁓ but he's also taught me a lot of patients and because we have to work through his, ⁓
Deborah Green (13:56)
But he's also taught me a lot of patience. And because we have to work through his. ⁓
I don't know if you call them temper tantrums or just spells or whatever, you know, when you tell him no, then he kind of goes into a thing where it's like, I don't want you to say no to me. And ⁓ for the longest time, he would have these little tantrums that lasted 40
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:06)
I don't know if you call temper tantrums or just spells or whatever, you know, when you tell him no, then he kind of goes into a thing where it's like, I don't want you to say no to me. And, ⁓ for the longest time he would have these little tantrums that lasted.
Deborah Green (14:25)
minutes to an hour. And now we've gotten him down to a couple minutes. So that's, it's, it's really good, but it's taught me patience on how to.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:26)
40 minutes to an hour. And now we've gotten them down to a couple minutes. So that's, it's really good, but it's taught me patience
on how to, and how to work through my stuff when I'm having a panic attack or something like that. know, it's a lot of breathing exercises that we go through. I also have a weekly support group that I attend online. So that really helps. And it's with first responders. So I have,
Deborah Green (14:35)
and how to work through my stuff when I'm having a panic attack or something like that. know, it's a lot of breathing exercises that we go through. I also have a weekly support group that I attend online. So that really helps. And it's with first responders. So I have like individuals
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:56)
like individuals that I can talk to when I'm having issues. And I also attend a
Deborah Green (14:56)
that I can talk to when I'm having issues. And I also attend a women's
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:03)
women's meditation and journaling group once a week online. I'm getting out and I also have a part-time job on the weekends. top of all of this. Just cause you needed something extra today. But it gets me out of the house. You know, Monday through Friday I'm stuck in the.
Deborah Green (15:03)
meditation and journaling group once a week online. So I've, I'm getting out and I also have a part-time job on the weekends on top of all of this.
But it gets me out of the house. I'm not, know, Monday through Friday, I'm stuck in, you know, these four
walls, basically. You know, even though we're taking a walk and I can go shopping and whatever, I'm still stuck here, not talking to adults and not interacting. So on the weekends, I can get out and I talk to adults. So that always helps.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:25)
you these four walls, basically, you know, even though we're taking a walk and I can go shopping and whatever, I'm still stuck here, not talking to adults and not interacting. on the weekends, I can get out and I talk to adults. that always helps.
Yes. It's sometimes amazing how much just talking to another person who is in a similar spot to you and gets it that you can just say,
I'm feeling XYZ and that person is just going to understand and they're not going to judge you or dismiss you, they're just going to go, yep, I get it. And sometimes that's all we need is that space where we can go, well, this is really great, but this bit really sucks. And it'd be okay to actually voice that. you talk about having better mental health support for first responders.
Deborah Green (16:02)
Yes, it's wonderful.
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:21)
And I love that you just said all those little things that you're doing, those taking care of yourself, that even as simple as getting out of the house and going for a walk and then on other days connecting with other people. So with what supports are there for our first responders, what do you think needs to change there in how we
Deborah Green (16:43)
you
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:47)
help and support those people who are on the front lines.
Deborah Green (16:50)
⁓ a lot more understanding and, ⁓ it has to come also from the individual departments. So I know down there in Australia, you guys, your law enforcement is set up a little bit different than it is here in the States. ⁓ so I think you have, is it provinces? I'm not sure or States States. So the police department is the state.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:51)
A lot more understanding and ⁓ it has to come also from the individual departments. So I know down there in Australia, you guys, your law enforcement is set up a little bit different than it is here in the states. Yes. So I think you have, is it provinces? States. Or states. States. So the police department is
the state.
Deborah Green (17:19)
police department,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:20)
Police Department. Yeah, I understand. Yes, that's it. Here in the states, it's each city or county. The state has a police and then we have federal. So there's a lot of moving parts in here. But each individual, what we're looking at is going to each individual department and having them provide peer
Deborah Green (17:20)
from what I understand, where here in the states, it's each city or county. The state has a police and then we have federal. So there's a lot of moving parts in here, but each individual, what we're looking at is going to each individual department and having them provide peer support.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:47)
support.
Deborah Green (17:48)
⁓
making therapy not such a stigma anymore. Because when you're in a position like law enforcement, think that you should be able to handle everything and not understanding that we see a lot of trauma through our careers. Where the normal person may have one or two traumatic events in their lifetime.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:49)
⁓ making therapy not such a stigma anymore. Because when you're in a position like law enforcement, think that you should be able to handle everything and not understanding that we see a lot of trauma through our careers. Where the normal person may have one or two traumatic events in their
lifetime.
Deborah Green (18:17)
We may have one or two traumatic events per day, per week, per month. You know, I mean, we can see up to four to 600 in our career, which is not necessarily our entire lifetime. So it's a lot different and making it more the norm to have somebody go out and see a therapist once a week.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:18)
We may have one or two traumatic events a day per day, per week, per month. You know, I mean, we can see up to four to 600 in our career, which is not necessarily our entire lifetime. So it's a lot different and making it more than norm to have somebody go out and see a therapist
once a week or once a month or even once a quarter.
Deborah Green (18:44)
or once a month or even once a quarter, depending
on what they need, but not make it a bad thing. You know, as I tell my... ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:48)
depending on what they need, but not make it a bad thing. You know, as I tell my...
⁓
Deborah Green (18:57)
law enforcement podcasts that I go on, I would much rather have the guy that's in therapy be my backup than I would the guy that's not in therapy that's having issues.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:58)
law enforcement podcast that I go on, would much rather have the guy that's in therapy be my backup than I would the guy that's not in therapy that's having issues. the
last thing you want when something's going on is to have that incident be that thing that breaks the camel's back and then both you and your backup are in big trouble. So yeah, much better.
Deborah Green (19:24)
Right.
Ha ha ha!
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:28)
I agree completely
much better to have people backing you up that are dealing with their own stuff and not pretending that it's not an issue. I that was part of why I started this podcast was I've been a massage therapist for a long time and I also grew up with a mother who was the clerk of the court. So in Australia, we have
Deborah Green (19:39)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:57)
place, but then our court systems, local courts are run by, like so my mum ran the courthouse at that local division and that's where also if you're in small rural areas, you'll have family courts sit there. Sometimes you'll have the different levels of the courts sit there. So I grew up around lawyers and policemen and that sort of thing. And
Deborah Green (20:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mm. All right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:26)
I know that they go through a lot that they don't talk about. But then also, as a massage therapist, I kept hearing people going through very similar experiences. Granted, a lot of it was around being parents of neurodivergent kids or suffering from anxiety, depression, those sorts of things. But the common theme was every person that I talked to felt like they were going through it all by themselves.
Deborah Green (20:31)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:56)
And my first thought was, well, they're all telling me about it. So they're definitely not alone. And I wanted a space where people could say, Hey, I hear you. know. And for people to share their stories so that we could say, Hey, there's somebody else who's, who's been through that experience. the only way we're going to heal the only way things are going to get better is if we start talking about it.
Deborah Green (21:23)
Exactly. You know, and that's one thing that I'm just going to keep talking about it until I can't talk anymore. know, because I've already found the one person that I, you know, have helped and I want to go and have another person and another person. And you know, it may not be today. may not be tomorrow, but if my story's out there on all these different platforms,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:24)
Exactly, you know, and that's one thing that I'm just going to keep talking about it until I can't talk anymore, you know, good. Because I've already found the one person that I, you know, have helped and I want to go and have another person and another person. And, know, it may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, but if my story is out there,
on all these different
platforms, somebody is gonna hear it when they need it. And I want, ⁓ I told myself I wanna be that person that I never had. So. And that's the thing, when we've gone through something, we are then able to be for somebody else, that person that we needed. And I think that's what we should do. If we are in a position that we can help another person through something, then we probably.
Deborah Green (21:53)
somebody is going to hear it when they need it. And I want, I, I told myself I want to be that person that I never had. So.
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:21)
should. Now if somebody listening is in the middle of burnout, trauma, especially if it's caregiving or frontline service work, what would you want them to hear today apart from that they're not alone?
Deborah Green (22:38)
that they're not alone and there is help out there. There, there really is. There's a lot more help than people realize. here in the States, we have a lot of organizations that help veterans and first responders. have organizations that help parents and caregivers of neurodivergent children. ⁓ so the help is out there. Just get on the internet and use Google or use whichever search engine you have and
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:39)
They're not alone and there is help out there. There's a lot more help than people realize. Here in the States, we have a lot of organizations that help veterans and first responders. We have organizations that help parents and caregivers of neurodivergent children. ⁓ So the help is out there. Just get on the internet and use Google or use whichever search engine you have
and
Deborah Green (23:08)
get out there.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:09)
get out there. and with the ⁓ COVID did a lot for us. don't realize out of everything there comes a blessing. It is that telehealth has been fabulous. do my therapy appointments in the comfort of my own, my own office. ⁓ which is fabulous, you
Deborah Green (23:09)
⁓ with the at COVID did a lot for us people don't realize. ⁓ It got us. is that telehealth has been fabulous. I do my therapy appointments in the comfort of my own my own office. ⁓ Which is fabulous, you know, and
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:35)
know, and
Deborah Green (23:36)
My support group is online and my women's group is online and I don't have to leave my safe space to go out into an impersonal office or anything like that to do a go do this. And there's so many apps. I I'm not sure what you have done in Australia because it's a little bit different than here in the States, but we have lots of mental health ⁓ apps on our phones that
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:37)
My support group is online and my women's group is online and I don't have to leave my safe space to go out into an impersonal office or anything like that to go do this. And there's so many apps. I'm not sure what you have done in Australia because it's a little bit different than here in the States, but we have lots of mental health apps on our
phones that
Deborah Green (24:05)
You can
get help. There's apps like Calm that have ⁓ breathing exercises and help you with sleep and things like that. And, you know, there's just a lot of help out there if you need it, which is so wonderful. The last five years has been awesome.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:06)
you can get help. There's apps like Calm that have breathing exercises and help you with sleep and things like that. you know, there's just a lot of help out there if you need it, which is so wonderful. The last five years have been awesome.
And I think we are slowly getting better at asking for help.
Deborah Green (24:35)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:35)
and accepting
it too, because sometimes that's the tricky thing is we are so used to carrying it all by ourselves that sharing the load sometimes is hard. Or admitting that I can't do it all because hang on, aren't we supposed to be able to do it all? Sometimes it's... But the thing is, no, we, us humans...
Deborah Green (24:54)
Mm-hmm.
Yes we are.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:03)
We are herd animals. We were not designed to do life in isolation. We weren't designed to do everything by ourselves. We thrive when we're in community and that's what we need to have. mental health challenges are definitely not something that somebody should go through by themselves. And yet there is help out there. I know in Australia, we've got a brilliant lab.
Deborah Green (25:04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:33)
called Smiling Minds. It does all sorts of things and it caters for everyone from kindy kids through to grandmas and older. You don't have to be a grandma. ⁓ So before we wrap up, if people wanted to connect with you and be part of your community,
Deborah Green (25:41)
That's wonderful. Yeah.
Ha
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:59)
and learn from your experience. What's the best way for them to get in touch with you? The best way would be on my Instagram account, which is at D911Green. It has my link tree on there that will link you up through LinkedIn, if anybody has that. I'm also on X sort of. ⁓
Deborah Green (26:04)
The best way would be on my Instagram account, which is at D911Green. It has my link tree on there that will link you up through LinkedIn, if anybody has that. ⁓ I'm also on X sort of. ⁓
I've taken a break from that. ⁓ I felt my anxiety get the best of me, so I kind of cut that off a little bit.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:26)
I've taken a break from that. ⁓ I felt my anxiety get the best of me, so I'm gonna cut that
off a little bit. I do videos on TikTok that have kind of inspirational, helpful stuff, and then I post those on Instagram, and I have a YouTube account, YouTube channel called Where the Sidewalk Ends. No relation to the book. ⁓ So yeah.
Deborah Green (26:32)
⁓ I do videos on Tik TOK that have kind of inspirational, helpful stuff. And then I post those on Instagram and I have a YouTube account, YouTube channel called where the sidewalk ends. ⁓ no relation to the book. ⁓ so yeah, ⁓ just, you know,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:55)
And we'll pop all
Deborah Green (26:56)
I've got lots of places I'm at.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:58)
of those in the show notes too, anyone will be able to pop on there and have a look and get in touch with you. Now, I have one last question that I like to ask all of my guests. What's that one conversation you feel we should be having, but we're not?
Deborah Green (27:18)
my gosh. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:19)
my gosh.
Deborah Green (27:22)
Well, here in the States are.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:23)
Well, here in the States, our...
Deborah Green (27:27)
We had a few rough years as far as law enforcement officers. In 2019 was the highest law enforcement murder rate that we had had with over almost 400 officers killed that year. But the suicide rate since then has overcome any officers killed on duty.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:28)
We had a few rough years as far as law enforcement officers. Yeah. In 2019 was the highest law enforcement murder rate that we had had with over almost 400 officers killed that year. Oh my gosh. But the suicide rate since then has overcome any officers killed
on duty. Yeah.
Deborah Green (27:55)
And what we need
to have is that difficult conversation within the law enforcement community, the first responder community, because it's not just cops, it's firefighters, it's dispatchers, it's medical professionals, it's veterans. And we need to have that difficult conversation about suicide and how we can prevent it in the workplace.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:56)
And what we need to have is that difficult conversation within the law enforcement community, the first responder community, because it's not just cops, it's firefighters, it's dispatchers, it's ambulance officers, medical professionals, it's veterans. And we need to have that difficult conversation about suicide and how we can prevent it in
the workplace. Yeah.
Yes, the suicide conversation is definitely one that needs to be had and to keep having because it's not going to be a simple solution. And the scary thing is our suicide rates across the board and even amongst our youth are higher than they've ever, ever been. So that is a lot of people who are struggling, who are in pain and choosing a very
Deborah Green (28:35)
No.
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:53)
permanent solution to what is quite often a temporary problem if we can get the help and support around them to navigate through it. again, we need to talk about it. And because, know, I even thought about it at one time, you know, and it's if it happened to me, it could happen to anybody. And we need to have those.
Deborah Green (28:57)
Yes.
⁓ Absolutely. But yes, because, know, I even thought about it at one time, you know, and it's, if it could happen to me, it could happen to anybody. And we need to have those nasty,
yucky conversations and try to, try to fix it within, you know, and, and it'll get there and.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:24)
nasty, yucky conversations and try to try to fix it within. Yes. You know, and it'll get there.
Deborah Green (29:34)
As long as we are more open about getting help, we're more open about mental health issues, then it, and I can see the tide turning. It's not like it was in 2015, 2016. It's gotten so much better, but we're not
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:34)
And as long as we are more open about getting help, we're more open about mental health issues. Then it and I can see the tide turning. It's not like it was in 2015. No, 2016. No, it's gotten so much better.
Deborah Green (29:51)
there yet.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:51)
But we're
not there yet. No, there's still a lot of a lot of work to do on a lot of conversations that need to happen because the rates being as high as they are is just kind of scary. And especially when it's it is and we lost several here in the area. lost two officers at my department to suicide over the course of my career. So, you know, it's
Deborah Green (30:07)
It is, it is, and we lost several here in the area. I lost two officers at my department to suicide over the course of my career. So, you know, it's there.
It affects everybody.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:21)
It's there. It affects
everybody. does. And to be completely honest, hearing a song called Whiskey Lullaby, and I have mentioned it before on the podcast, I was driving home from dropping the kids off somewhere and Whiskey Lullaby came on the radio and it's a song I hadn't heard in probably 10 years. But it is about suicide and one of the lines
in it that really stuck with me and what triggered off me coming home and saying I want to start a podcast was nobody ever knew.
And to my mind, was yet nobody ever knew how much pain she was in, how much she was hiding because she never spoke about it. We need to speak about it because possibly if somebody knew what was going on, that would be one less person that went down that dark road. yes.
Deborah Green (31:06)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Mine is one is too many
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:24)
And we could probably...
Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's a great note for us to draw to a close on is that one person committing suicide is one too many. And we need to share our stories because you never know when your story...
Deborah Green (31:29)
Ha
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:54)
will be the thing that makes the difference for somebody else, particularly if they are in that dark space. Now, if anyone is in that space, please, please reach out for help.
Deborah Green (32:07)
Definitely, and in the States it's. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:08)
Even if it's that you send Deborah
a message, send me a message, reach out to Lifeline, reach out to any of those support services and I will put a list of support services that are available in the show nights so that you can do that.
Deborah Green (32:14)
Exactly.
And also in the states, it's a simple number, 988. We'll get you somebody on the line to help you out. They say it's a suicide prevention line, but it's actually a mental health talk line. And it'll just get you somebody to talk to right away.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:27)
And also in the states, it's a simple number, 988. We'll get you somebody on the line to help you out. They say it's a suicide prevention line, but it's actually a mental health talk line. And it'll just get you somebody to talk
to right away.
Yes, so please use those those resources that are out there. Deborah, I want to thank you so much for coming on today for your courage, your honesty, and your lifetime of showing up for others. I tend to think our first responders are quite often unsung heroes and those that don't see the
things always firsthand, but they're supporting our first responders as well. Need a bit of a bit of encouragement too. So to all to all of our listeners, if something in today's conversation resonated with you, please know that you are not alone. Healing is possible. And your story really does matter. If you've got a story of your own to share, or a topic you'd like to hear explored on this podcast,
Deborah Green (33:21)
Absolutely.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:41)
I'd love to hear from you. So leave a comment, send me a message, connect with me on socials, and just let me know what you want to talk about. I'm Sarah Jordan Ross and this has been Taboo Talk. Until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and remember, your story matters, so share it.