In this heart-opening episode, Dr. Brian Grossman joins Sarah to explore what it means to grow up with a rare chronic illness—and how that early challenge shaped his life’s work as a psychologist, speaker, and coach. Together, they dive deep into emotional regulation, assertive communication, and what it takes to support neurodivergent kids and families living with chronic illness. From powerful stories to practical tools, this episode is a must-listen for parents, practitioners, and anyone healing their inner child.
“Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things… when it's paired with proactive action.” — Dr. Brian Grossman
“You’re not invisible. You have a right to speak up, to say what you need, and find your tribe.” — Sarah Jordan-Ross
“Our nervous system is designed to keep us safe, not happy. It’s our job to create joy and fulfillment.” — Dr. Brian Grossman
Dr. Brian Grossman
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Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:00) Welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast that breaks the silences, fosters hope and talks about the tough stuff so you never feel alone. We make space for the stories we're afraid to share and find healing in the telling. And today I am honored to welcome Dr. Brian Grossman. He's a psychologist, a speaker and a coach whose life work centers on one simple truth. Our emotions don't define us.
Brian and I were introduced by our mutual friend Leanne Lyon after he appeared on her podcast. Now when he shared his diagnosis and personal journey, Leanne thought of me because she knows I am a mum of a child with MS. And I'm deeply committed to breaking the silence around those topics and talking about chronic illness, trauma,
and neurodivergence and when I heard Brian's story and Leanne put us in touch I was so so happy because I know he'll bring something unique to this space and we'll be able to help a lot of people. He was diagnosed with myasthenia gravis at age 10 and he grew up learning what it means to feel different unseen and limited by a body that wouldn't cooperate.
But instead of being defined by that, he chose to study it, teach it, and transform the emotional landscape of others. Now, I don't know, but this could turn into a collaborative effort between us to get more information out there about the struggles of chronic illness, particularly things like myasthenia gravis and multiple sclerosis.
So whether you're here as a parent, a practitioner, or someone still healing your inner child, this conversation is for you. Brian, welcome. I am so, happy you're here.
Dr. Brian Grossman (02:04)
Well, I'm thrilled to be here and chat with you. And I will say I've been so lucky in my life that I didn't quite make it to where you are. But the two best trips of my life was when I was with a seminar company. And I got to go throughout Australia three weeks at a time. And here in the United States, where I'm at, we were thrilled if we got a big crowd of 100 people.
for a one or two day seminar. And when I got to Australia, I didn't get the ⁓ list of registrants for each seminar until the morning that I got to my, I mean, the morning I went into the seminar room and for three weeks I had 250 people. I was like, by the end of the first week I was ⁓ just a wet noodle, but it was energizing and fun and.
The reason I bring that up is in my first seminar was how to communicate with tact and finesse. And I didn't even get good morning out. And a gentleman didn't even raise his hand. He just stood up and said, just want to let you know we're not assertive, rude, or brutish like you Americans. And I said, well, thank you very much. I appreciate you telling me that. Let's start in. And I said,
I encourage all of you ⁓ so that I can see how many I want you to stand up to if any of these things have happened to you. You had a ⁓ boss walk by and give you a negative comment and other people were around and could hear it. Stand up. So everybody stood up to every question. I think maybe one or two people stayed sitting. And I said, I want you all to know this.
are we are all unique. We all have behavioral styles that are different. We have personalities that are different. However, we are connected by our humanness and our belonging and our want for community. And we all want to be treated well with respect. And I said, if you were sent here, I want you to be proud and excited because you're feeling like it was a punishment. I was sent here.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:21)
Thanks
Dr. Brian Grossman (04:28)
My boss told me if I didn't get on the plane, I'd get fired. Now, of course, I wanted to come. And I said, but we're connected. And if you master other people's behavioral style, you'll learn to communicate with them in a way that works. And so I'm going to help you communicate no matter what in any situation. And we had a great time for two days. And before I finish, I'm going to let you take over.
I absolutely want to remind everybody, if you only listen to this part for a minute and then you have to get out of your car or turn it off and listen to the rest of the interview later, there is community out there for you. There are doctors groups that want to help. There are family groups. There are support groups. They are online. They are in person. Reach out. You will get connected. It doesn't matter what the medical, behavioral,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:08)
Yes.
Dr. Brian Grossman (05:24)
brain issue is there is community out there. And then the next thing, be appropriately assertive. When you go to a seminar and a doctor is doing, this is the newest treatment. this is the newest at, be assertive, ask questions. You have that right. If you do it in a respectful way, you'll be golden. And I remember ⁓ my father-in-law and mother-in-law,
My father-in-law got diagnosed with ⁓ cancer for the second time. So my wife and I flew out to Nebraska. We drive him to the hospital. We got to see the oncologist and he wanted a bunch of tests and he was very nice. And he said, we'll do this next week. And I said, doc, my wife and I are here for 10 days. We need all the tests done in the next two days and then get the results before we fly home. And he was cooperative. And at the end of the session, he said,
to my parents, do you have any questions? And they didn't say anything. And I said, doc, if you see either of them again, and my wife and I aren't here, and they don't have any questions, they didn't hear anything because they turned their hearing aids off. They have questions about everything. So it's okay to ask questions. Be assertive. Find out what you need. Try not to get frustrated. And we're going to talk about that process as we move along here. I'm going to be quiet because
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:34)
You
Dr. Brian Grossman (06:47)
I want you to guide the conversation.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:50)
No, I'm loving it and it's absolutely true. We need community. We're not meant to do things in isolation and coping with chronic illness. It's a tough gig. We need as much help as we can get. And that is part of why I started the podcast was I've been a massage therapist for 25 years. I was a sick kid too. And then I cared for my mum through a cancer journey. And now I have
Two of my three boys have special needs. My oldest was diagnosed with MS at age 11 and my youngest has ADHD. And if anything I've learned, there is no such thing as a stupid question because if you're thinking it, possibly so is somebody else. And you really do have to stand up and advocate for yourself. It's okay to question. It is okay to say,
this is what I want, this is what I need and it's okay to go searching for that information that will help you figure out what it is that you want and need.
Dr. Brian Grossman (07:59)
I agree.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:00)
and to talk to others who are in a similar space to you. Now, I mean, one of the big reasons I wanted to get you on was so you could share what your experience was as a young boy being diagnosed with...
somewhat unusual condition like myasthenia gravis is not all that common and you also had the it could have been something else diagnosis i know for my son first off he was diagnosed with a condition called adem acute disseminating encephalomyelitis then when it didn't go quite the way they were expecting function on neurological disorder and then after a follow-up
brain scan, no it is MS. Now one of those things with my background when they said 80 % of cases of ADEM resolve completely and never have any further problems. Unfortunately I knew what the other 20 % were and I was once again in that position of
I know stuff I wish I didn't know because when my mum went through cancer I'd finished my oncology massage training about six months before she was diagnosed and again it was the hang on but at least I knew the questions to ask I knew what I was likely facing and that can be
Dr. Brian Grossman (09:18)
Right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:41)
be a bit of a double-edged sword of the know what the possibilities are but wanting to find ways to improve those odds.
Dr. Brian Grossman (09:54)
100 percent.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:56)
And why I wanted to talk to you is I know what it's like to be a sick teenage girl but when it comes to the challenges that a teenage boy is going to face yeah I'm also one of five girls so it's like the whole boy thing I'm a little clueless so it's like if I can get that bird's-eye view of this is what it was like
and this is where I'm at now quite a few years later but yeah so can you take us back to that to teenage you like you first diagnosed you your whole world's been turned upside down you can't do the things that you thought you were going to be doing so what did you do?
Dr. Brian Grossman (10:37)
Sure, I'm good.
Well, you know, I was a normal kid. had two older brothers. And I have to say, Sarah, ⁓ it's interesting that we connected. I'm so thrilled LeAnne connected us together. But I feel like, wow, if one of us was born in the other hemisphere, you know, now I know with your million listeners, don't tell your husband, don't tell my wife, we could have connected and been married. But, and I say that because it's important to laugh.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:11)
You
Dr. Brian Grossman (11:19)
You need to laugh now. So what happened to me is grew up, I'm Jewish and I make the joke all the time. My dad said, if you don't want to take over my pleading in a broader factory, you can do anything you want for a living as long as you're a doctor. yeah, limited choices there. So getting bad grades was a criminal event. So when I was
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:21)
yeah.
Not an option.
Dr. Brian Grossman (11:46)
Nine, I wasn't getting Ds and Fs, but I was having a real hard time and staying awake at the end of the day was hard. And basically for me, I had a very mild case. Myasthenia gravis can be quite severe. ⁓ Lamar Lundy of the Los Angeles Rams in the 70s had to retire from football because he got it. Some people have to have what's called your thymus gland removed underneath your breastbone.
⁓ trouble breathing, severe muscle weakness. So I had a mild case, but growing up as a boy, you know, in the seventies, you're still in the intractable do this as a boy thing, right? So if I played sports for 20 minutes, that was it. And I was kind of wiped out. And then when I got to junior high, I had to be excused from PE or running in the morning and you know, the PE teacher would
have a hard time with that and other kids would have a hard time. So I learned early on, how can you connect with others? So I always spoke up. Part of that is my dad was from Brooklyn, New York, so he was assertive anyway. then, but, you know, I wouldn't get in fights or anything. I was not that kind of kid, but I was in drama class. I was a community volunteer. I was into arts. was...
into sports and my dad would always say, well, you don't play. I said, yeah, there's a lot of coaches who coach well, who weren't professional. And so I went through that. then on top of that, because I made the cardinal sin of I was getting an F in eighth grade, there were 60 kids in my math class. So my parents transferred me out of a regular junior high and I went to a private school that my neighbor was going to. The whole school was 100 kids.
And that school was seven through 12th. So I joined them in ninth grade and I had to get involved in other things to be seen or noticed or spoken to. ⁓ And, you know, back then it wasn't fashionable to be a nerd. Now it is. And so just finding ways to connect. I always wondered why do people treat you different if they can't see what's wrong with you?
you almost get a little more empathy and sympathy if they can see a physical disorder. And sometimes not also, I know that. But the scary part when I was 10 was ⁓ that I, you know, they thought it was multiple sclerosis at first, but back in the 70s when you got diagnosed with that, was, it could have been fatal.
Because they didn't know how to treat it back then and there weren't the medications there are now But then it was myasinia gravis and then what happened was, you know, I'm a rebellious kid so I wouldn't take my medicine and ⁓ I think when I was 11 and a half, I started seeing my pediatrician Weekly and so by the time I got bar mitzvahed at age 13, which is a Jewish ceremony It's like confirmation for Catholics the rabbi's
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:38)
Yeah.
Dr. Brian Grossman (15:07)
son, his son was seeing my pediatrician. So rabbi's son pulls me out of the waiting room one day. says, why are you here every couple of weeks? I said, I don't know. And so he helped me find my purpose. He asked me four questions. okay, this is what you're going to do. And it ended up being right. I went into psychology and find your purpose. whatever your
issue, diagnosis is you're here for a purpose. And if you could find that, so for me it was, to me, you know, now understand this coming from a Jewish rabbi who's orthodox, we were not, he said, our purpose in life is to be a light unto nations. How do you translate that? You educate people. How do you educate people? You do well in school and find something you can do to help other people. So I knew by 10th grade I was going into psychology.
And in that small school, I ended up doing student government, drama class, arts, community work. But with that rabbi talking to me, he took me outside and he shut the doctor's door and it said his name. And he said, do you see the MD? And I said, yeah. And he says, what does the PhD mean? And I said, I have no idea. I'm 10. What do want from my life? And he said,
He said he's a clinical psychologist and a pediatrician. So you're seeing a therapist every week, just so you know. And I did almost all the time I was 15. And then I start, you know, I was by then I was taking my medication regularly because the effects of not taking it, I could really notice the difference. And ⁓ then miraculously, when I was 18, I
you know, went for testing and this neurologist came from the University of Maryland to USC in Southern California and said I didn't have it. And I will share this part. What happened was, and many of you listening might know this, is whether it's a normal diagnosis, whether it's an abbe normal diagnosis, whatever it is, when you see a new doctor, they just don't have the time to go over your records beforehand.
So that's why you wait in the waiting room, right? Well, an intern comes in and says, it looks like you never had this and it was psychological. Well, every six months I had the test done where they put, I forgot what it's called, but they put little electrodes on your arm and shoot electricity through it to register if the muscles are getting acetylcholine or not. Anyway, when he said that, my mom and the lead doctor came running in because I started screaming at the guy.
I was ticked off and fired. Yes. And so before that, speaking up and being assertive, when I was 15 and a half, I went to a support group and a neurologist was talking about the neurons and the this and the that. And remember, we're in the 70s, so there's no PC computers in the home yet. And the doctor says, he said something, and I raised my hand and I said, why can't you just put computer chips in our arm?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:55)
As you would.
Dr. Brian Grossman (18:24)
and program the nerve endings to send acetylcholine through our blood and the muscles, and then we'll be fine. And he said, we absolutely can do that, but you'll be carrying two refrigerators behind you. so I got it. Well, a woman heard that, and I did my first professional talk at 16 ⁓ in front of the women's chapter of Myocene and Gravas in Beverly Hills, and it was 1,200 people. And for doing that, she told me I have one job.
The one job is to make people cry and write checks. So I was able to do that. But I invited all my high school friends so that they could know what was really going on with me. And I made new friends through that. But then I got to go to the men's chapter and they gave Lamar Lundy the award. And I got to meet in person the defensive linemen of the LA Rams. And I'm telling you when you see football players on TV and you hear how big they are, you don't know until you see them in person. mean,
Merlin Olsen, Lamar Lundy could pick me up with one hand. mean, they're just like, yeah. So just being different, being unique. And as a young person in my teens and 20s, sometimes I used unique as being arrogant. So if you can embrace your uniqueness, if you can figure out, and later on, Sarah will share with you how you can get in touch with me. I'd love to help you if you're having trouble.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:26)
They're big guys.
Dr. Brian Grossman (19:51)
How do you tap into your own best strengths and your uniqueness and your behavioral style that will work no matter who you're dealing with and how to lower the stress of having whatever the disorder is. But that was my journey. And when I turned 18, I didn't have to take the medication again. I got grounded a few times in my car taken away from me because I stayed out past midnight. And not that I was a party animal or anything, but you did all the things you couldn't do before. So I didn't have to go to bed at nine o'clock.
But to this day, I learned with two older brothers and since you grew up with sisters, I wonder if you had this. ⁓ I figured out, if I get up before everybody else, I can have breakfast and nobody picks on me. And I can do what I want in the morning and get ready for school or get ready to go play or whatever it is. And I'm ready to go by the time everybody, I never liked sleeping in. And through college, I did all my morning classes so I can get a part-time job and then.
go out on dates or have fun or do drama plays in the evening. So I've done that and to this day, I'm 29, no, I just turned 64 and I ⁓ still get up at four, 4.30 in the morning, meditate, exercise, have a protein shake and get on with my day. And if there's a crisis, boy, I'm all over it at eight at night, nine at night, but if it's not crisis,
and you want to go over something important, that's just not going to happen until the next morning. So those are my habits. So fire away with more questions.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:27)
I'm the same. I get up early but it's not because of my childhood experience. Depending on who you ask, I was an afterthought, a happy accident or they needed recovery time. ⁓ Because I'm eight years younger than my next sister.
Dr. Brian Grossman (21:49)
⁓ so you got left alone a lot.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:51)
But
yeah, I was once described as being an only child who just happens to have siblings. Which was fairly, fairly close. But I get up early now because...
That's the only time when my house is quiet. I now live in a house where we have two speeds and two volumes. We're either flat out or asleep or we're loud or louder.
Dr. Brian Grossman (22:21)
I get it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:21)
So
I get my quiet time early in the morning and that would be my advice for any parent of kids with extra needs is find that time that can be your time because parenting is a tough gig anyway when you add the complexity of dealing with
neurodivergence, chronic illness, disability in any form, it just adds that extra level. So you need to make sure that you're taking as good a care of you as you are of them because if you collapse in a screaming heap, to put it bluntly, your family's screwed. So make sure you look after you. Now while you were going through your challenges,
Were there any things that people or particularly doctors said that either really helped you, like you shared how your rabbi pointed out, find your purpose, which is really cool. And I personally believe that each and every one of us is created for a specific purpose that only we can fill.
But for every one of those great things that are said to you when you're in that space, there can be a lot of things that aren't helpful and can actually be kind of hurtful, necessarily meaning to be. So did you have that experience of...
Dr. Brian Grossman (23:58)
⁓ I could say definitely in therapy and even my brothers, I had a...
hard time with, I good enough? Am I fitting in? Do I belong? And then it finally snapped in after grad school. I was very lucky that in my graduate program, you had to be in therapy every year you were there. And I had a great therapist and we did family sessions and I thought my brothers.
were angry with me because I got treated different and, you know, without getting into too many details, they had issues with my dad and left the house, you know, not as teenagers. They weren't thrown out or anything. But I just always felt guilty because I lived in the house through undergrad and they did not. And they said, be yourself, do your own thing. Don't worry about us. We're good. Just do your thing. And it took a long time for that to sink in.
And so that's my purpose is help people stop underachieving, believe in yourself. If you have self-esteem, you love yourself and you have self-confidence, you know you can do specific things well that you're geared for, then that's half the ball game. And then tuning out the outside noise. You you have to please three or four people in your life, your parents, your siblings, hopefully, but not forever.
That's up to them ⁓ and your boss and your spouse. But other than that, other people's opinions, you can listen to it and say, this reality? Is this not? Do I need to shift something? But not being a ping pong ball reacting to others. Not by tuning them out, but by not... If you're reactive to everybody, you're just always up and down, up and down, up and down.
when you're consistently confident, your whole life changes. Optimism works, but it's not optimism, woo woo, everything is great. It's believing that, it's having a plan, it's following through, it's taking care of you. Like you mentioned, everybody needs their own space or time out or alone time. There is no two ways about it. ⁓ And doesn't mean you're shutting other people out.
but like I'm launching a speaking and coaching business and other, you can't do it at your age and you can't do this. Well, I'm publishing a chapter in a book in a month or two. No, it'll be out October 1st. And then I'm publishing my own book and I'm getting speaking gigs. I wish it was going faster, but do your thing, but take care of your business, take care of you. And there's a way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:39)
Says who?
Dr. Brian Grossman (26:58)
Nowadays to learn how to tune out the negative noise and I have a system that you know people can find out about but I I went through my ups and downs. mean I can honestly say other people's grad school was so much fun. I thought it was hell every day You know, but I got through it and learned a bunch of stuff and I know what I'm good at But I I could tell you the first couple years of grad school. I was definitely depressed. I didn't go on medication. I just
saw my therapist two times a week. it's, you know, you're not alone and it's okay to talk about issues and find solutions.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:39)
We need to talk about it and it's in that talking about it that we find those solutions and originally I was going to call this podcast shit we don't talk about but that name was already taken so then I I changed it to to taboo talk it's like what are what are those things that we don't talk about what's that called ⁓ yeah they're taboo they're off-limits and I wanted to be able to talk about
Dr. Brian Grossman (27:46)
Mm-hmm.
wow.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:07)
anything and everything because the through line that I had seen was people going through such similar experiences but feeling like they were alone in it but the simple fact that they were telling me very similar things when they were coming for massage treatments was well you're all telling me so you're definitely not alone and
Maybe if we start talking about it, that will help to shift things. you've worked across prisons in therapy, coaching. I'm sure you would have had a through line that went through all of that. But then this next little bit, let's get practical and give those families out there like yours and mine that are dealing with these things tips and tools that just might help.
Dr. Brian Grossman (29:01)
All right. So the first thing that comes to mind, and you tell me if this is too vague, ⁓ it's to me, it's the part of what I preach as emotional mastery. You can't control other people and their responses. So what can you control? Your response to things, your actions, your health, your behavior.
Focus on that. And even with your kids, so if your kids have special needs, if you're listening to this and your kids don't have special needs, parenting is still hard. And so what happens is we try to take control. So I learned in my postdoc internship, we had a specialty practice. It was kids who test well, they test like geniuses and they're bringing home Ds and Fs. Well, sometimes we steal the emotions from our kids.
We need to teach our kids to feel their feelings and cope with them. That's what they don't know how to do. Feel the feelings, identify them, and cope with them. And so a simple example is, you know, your kid wants a new bike for their birthday or Christmas or Hanukkah, whatever it is. Okay, so we make a deal. Well, parents get upset about they'll come home and your kid's playing video games instead of doing work. Or if your kid has special needs and you find out they didn't do their...
stretching or their yoga or whatever they need to do to stay limber or functional and you get angry, you're stealing the emotion. They don't have to feel bad because you are. They don't have to be upset with themselves because you are. So we taught parents and I teach coaching clients this all the time is like your kid's not doing something. So I'd say, hey, you know what, Tom, must
you feel really bad that you're not going to be getting that birthday gift you wanted and you walk away. Or you say, wow, you must feel real bad because it looks like you're not doing what you need to do to get that thing we agreed on. And it'll take a couple of times. But eventually your kids will come to you and say, well, what do you mean? like, well, you want to be healthier. You want to feel better.
and you're not doing this. So it must feel real bad to know you want something, but you're not working towards it. And that's what we call low self-esteem, just so you know, or avoiding things. And people who are healthy and successful, they don't avoid things. So if you want to talk about how to not avoid, I can help you with that. And if you don't, you're going to be the one who's, you know, we used to really make kids feel bad. I'd look at one kid and I'd say,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:45)
Yep.
Dr. Brian Grossman (31:52)
I know what's gonna happen. I said, I'm gonna publish a great psychology book and be on TV. And then I'm gonna flip you a half dollar at the car wash because you're gonna take a second effort to wipe the whole windshield instead of just big circles in the center. I need the whole windshield to be clean. And they would get angry and I said, thank God you do feel something. Now what are we gonna do about it? And that's critical. So it's feel your feelings. It's identify what they are. Learn to not.
Control them, it's feel them and what to do about it. That's emotional mastery. And then you don't have to try to control others because you're in control of yourself. And so it's that thing that gets tied into how to be your best self. And it is not a one minute cure. It's a hourly, daily thing until you master it then it becomes a natural habit. And so...
not responding to other people. Everybody has an opinion on how you should do stuff. So, right? And so my favorite action or analogy is sports. ⁓ the sports player doesn't care. It's like, well, you know, they practice seven days a week. They work out all the time. They didn't go to the free throw line saying, I want to miss this purposely.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:54)
Of course.
Dr. Brian Grossman (33:14)
You know, they're doing their best and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. You baseball players, they're only successful 30 % of the time and that makes them a superstar. You've got 300 or above, you're making millions.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:26)
Yes, but we can't all do that. And to get to that level of mastery, you've got to put the work in.
Dr. Brian Grossman (33:28)
So find your space.
Yes, 100%. You put in the work, it's daily practice. And then here's the magic now that you and I didn't have in the 70s or 80s or even 90s is computers. Now, I don't want kids to not have friends. They absolutely have to have social skills and get along with. I always say the more you can get along with different personalities or behavior styles, the easier your life is.
because you will run into the person who bothers you the most until you learn how to cope with them. But today, kids with any special needs, if they're able to work on a computer, they can get AI certified and teach it to other people and make money. They can develop courses. They can do so many things, whatever their specific talent is, than at any time in the world. I mean, you can teach people
teach kids how to deal with the stress of playing chess or whatever it is.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:33)
My oldest boy, he edits my podcast. So, yeah.
Dr. Brian Grossman (34:38)
Wow! Can I hire him? Okay!
I'm all in.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:43)
Because it's something that he enjoys to do and we pay him to do it. And his other great love at the minute is music. He discovered that because before he got sick, he was playing soccer on the Saturday, was running around playing with his mates after church on
making smoke sticks where you had a big fire pit going. He was mucking around doing that. Then the Monday, he wakes up and says, my arm feels like it's in a cast and my foot feels like it's in a moon boot.
Dr. Brian Grossman (35:25)
Wow.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:26)
by midnight Monday night he couldn't walk but two weeks before that we're on holidays on Gary or Fraser Island and he was showing our friends how to do Russian dance because he taught himself watching YouTube clips
and he was also a competitive cross country runner. So overnight he can't do those things anymore.
He will sit and play his guitar, he discovered bass guitar at the start of this year, and he will sit and play it for hours.
where he used to go for a run or do sit-ups and push-ups that... He still does those things but not the way that he used to so that was the thing that... Fipswitch and found those things that he can do. I very much and I think it was my experience of being ill that taught me that... Yes, there will be those things that... Yeah.
Dr. Brian Grossman (36:24)
Yeah, it could be the artist's thing to find. Yeah, but he
found something he could tap into that he enjoys. That's fabulous.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:32)
Yeah, because there will always be something you can do. There will always be another way to work around a problem. Sometimes you just have to look a little harder and be open to, okay, things aren't going to look the way that I thought they were, but they can still be just as good, maybe even better. Maybe there was a reason that my path got shifted.
Dr. Brian Grossman (37:02)
Yeah, and you know what, I mean, was, when Leanne first introduced us and I looked at the topic of your show, the title, and I thought, taboo talk with Sarah, boy, what do we, because Leanne knows my wicked sense of humor, I thought, okay, what things Sarah wanna talk about? And then you let me know, but you know what, Sarah, nobody, maybe in the future I could come back on if you want, we have another guest, nobody talks about,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:10)
Hahaha
Dr. Brian Grossman (37:32)
the process of working through anger, frustration, not clinical depression, but yeah, we all have, there's nobody whose life is perfect. That's why I post on Facebook. I respond to the people who I like on Facebook, but I hope this doesn't sound horrid. I just get nauseated when I turn on Facebook for a minute before I post something. And the first thing is this why, ⁓ I made my husband.
a cherry pie, it's our anniversary for 25 years and he's the best person in the world and I want to throw up, you know. It's like, yes, he's God's gift to women, but I'm not in the mood right now, you know. And so I don't let that bother me all day long. I tune that out. But it's like there isn't a human being who's not doesn't go through hardship or frustration. It doesn't just flow right any.
celebrity you know, it didn't just happen for them. It happened for them after 10 years, right? And learning that, that's what our societies worldwide have gotten away from is teaching how to work through. It's hard. It's hard to find, okay, I can't be the runner I was. What else can I do? What else can I master? And that's what's great. He founded on YouTube for me. You know, that's amazing.
know, Shark Tank is wonderful too. It's like all these inventions and tools that help humans do things better.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:05)
That's the thing, we don't get taught how to deal with those negative emotions that we all go through. And social media, as great as it can be when it's used the right way, most of us, it's the highlight reel that goes on there and the problem with that,
when you're looking at somebody else's highlight reel and you're comparing it to your life that in that particular moment might be very very far from those highlight moments it makes you feel bad it makes you feel less than but
There's lots of times that what's happening on that highlight reel, that's just part of the story. That's the sunshine after the storm. part of why I, and I love talking about the storm and the, okay, how do I find my way to be the calm in that storm? Because
Dr. Brian Grossman (39:54)
Perfectly stated. Perfectly stated.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:09)
We all go through it. We all have our moments of...
life's just really hard or something's happened and you just go that just really sucks but we so often put on that I'm okay I've got it all together show that brave face to the world but inside we're crumbling
We need to learn and to find those spaces where we can actually say, today, no, I'm not okay. But can somebody help me find a way to be okay with the not okay that is around me?
Dr. Brian Grossman (40:51)
Right, and let's intercept that thought. So if you say, today I'm not okay, we can revise that and say, right at the moment I'm not okay, what can I do within my control to shift that? And then who else can help me change my mood? So I like to talk about a mental health toolbox. When I wake up and I'm frustrated something's going wrong, I will.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:02)
Exactly.
Dr. Brian Grossman (41:18)
do a meditation or prayer, I will do a two minute exercise, but then I go through a cycle. My mental health toolbox is a comedy bit that I like, a favorite song, a book quote, a movie scene, and ⁓ I can't think of the other thing, and just movement. I gotta get myself out of that. I still feel the negative thing, but I don't let it ruin my whole morning or day, and that's why I like.
what's within my control. I can do something about this and start to feel better. And then I can reach out to somebody who will also help me feel better.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:57)
Joseph McLendon has a great process of the snapping out of it. And getting to that, you can shift that more quickly of the, you make yourself feel bad on purpose. So you let yourself feel those negative feelings. Then you do the, squirrel! So you interrupt that pattern.
Dr. Brian Grossman (42:21)
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (42:21)
and then
make yourself feel good on purpose.
Dr. Brian Grossman (42:25)
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (42:25)
And then what your brain does, you've made yourself feel good on purpose so you've gotten those feel good endorphins, the chemicals, the neurotransmitters that you need and your brain goes, ⁓ what did I do just before that? And you start to shift into that feeling good on purpose and on command. Doesn't mean that you don't have
those negative experiences don't have those hard emotions it just means that you can snap yourself out of it quicker. Like yes we all go there but we don't have to unpack and stay there.
Dr. Brian Grossman (43:03)
Yeah.
Right, you don't have to stay there and it's okay to crush a tennis ball, squeeze your hands, push against the wall, lift a weight. And you know what? have a... Yep, I love that. And you know, I have a group of three friends left from, one from childhood, one from college, one from grad school. We give ourselves permission, we send a text. I need three minutes just to rant. I don't want you to intervene or tell me anything. I gotta just scream and...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:17)
Go kick a taekwondo mat.
Dr. Brian Grossman (43:37)
You're a person I could do that with and that feels good. And then I can process, okay, how I'm gonna move forward? What do I need to do? And then sometimes I ask, I don't know what to do about this, right? And so when you ask yourself the question, what can I do? What's in my best interests? Open-ended positive questions to your brain, your brain will give you the answer.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (44:04)
Because we have those answers, sometimes we just need to be able to go blah and hear ourselves say it. So find those people that you can just go blah at. Here's my advice to everyone.
Dr. Brian Grossman (44:16)
Right?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (44:20)
So many things I could ask you about. You mentioned that you're writing a book. Do want to tell us about that?
Dr. Brian Grossman (44:22)
Go for it.
Yes,
sure. So October 1st, it's going to come out on Kindle. I'm a co-author in what's called an anthology book. Let me get the exact title it is.
search.
I will find it's Elevate and it's about the entrepreneur journey. I will find the title here in a moment.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (44:57)
pop
all those in the show notes too just so people can get
Dr. Brian Grossman (44:59)
Sure, and
here, let me just find my email instead of searching on my downloads. anyway, so I'm really excited about that. the chapter that's coming out is going to be the first chapter of my book. And it came to me when I was reading about how much trouble kids are having today.
with ⁓
socializing, business skills, anxiety, tension, depression. so what happened
Sarah Jordan-Ross (45:38)
Some of the stats
on what our kids are facing are horrifying.
Dr. Brian Grossman (45:42)
Right, and so I went to a ⁓ networking event and there were groups of people in their 20s all on their phones in groups of three or four. And the woman running the networking event was just apoplectic. So I said, do you have any bags? And she says, what do mean? I said, if you have Ziploc bags or bags, let's get everybody's phones. Let's put them in the bag with their names on them. ⁓
I'm gonna take over the room. And I said, I want everybody to come around in a big circle. We're gonna pick two people you don't know. You're gonna talk to them one minute each. Who are you? What do you do? What do you need help with? And with that, ⁓ the whole room got energized. And I passed out little notepads with pens and people had to write stuff down. And I thought, this is it. We need to reconnect again. So my book is called The Human App.
how to be your real self in an artificial world. And it's all about the struggles of every generation and the workplace and what we're going through. And so it's pretty amazing. So the book is Elevate and Empower, a Guide for Entrepreneurs, Solopreneurs, and Business Owners.
And so I'll get you the exact title and a copy of the cover by tonight if you like. But that book is six other authors and ⁓ it's, I'm really excited and ⁓ I'm hoping it just takes off because we are all, everybody's looking for connection, whatever the generation is and.
I know for myself, you know, my mom had severe heart issues before she passed away. And when COVID hit, my mom was always very social so that she couldn't have 10 people over to play cards or majean was just depressing and helping her work through that and overcome all of that was important. And it was
difficult and you know I went through you know so from seniors down to kindergartners you know we make our grandkids really focus on how to ⁓
Socialize, be in sports, be a good classmate, be a, here we go. I've got it exactly. So it is.
Dr. Brian's way of running your life day by day. Sorry. ⁓ for anybody who's interested for $15,000 a month, I will move in with you and tell you what you're doing right and wrong for 30 days. And I got that from the Big Bang Theory. Sheldon said he would do that. So elevate and empower insight. Right. Elevate and empower.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (48:58)
but we love Sheldon, I'm not so sure about that.
Dr. Brian Grossman (49:03)
Insights on entrepreneurship, innovation, and success. So elevate and empower, and I'll email you. It's coming out on Kindle. And Sarah, I will send you my, I only have my copy of the chapter. If you don't mind just reading through it, it's a whopping nine pages. And give me your thoughts. That would be heaven. But through that, and people have told me, ⁓ you can't write a book. Well, yes, I can.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (49:27)
do that.
Dr. Brian Grossman (49:34)
Well, you can't make money being a best seller. Well, yes, if it doesn't take off and I'm not on Oprah and Dr. Phil, even if I am, I'm not going to ⁓ make millions on the book. My goal is connection. I will absolutely be able to talk on other podcasts, be in groups, talk at associations. I'll be able to have a
further reach than I would if I don't write it. And if I don't do it, then I'll never know. And if I do do it, I'll learn from it. And so I'm having fun doing the research, learning the process, going through all the hoops. But my whole being is how do we be our best? How do we step up? How do we stay in control of our emotions rather than
trying to control other people. There's a big difference. And I really, because of my upbringing with the disorders, like how do we just connect and treat each other well? You know, it's, you know, and I always believe, my dad taught me this, took me a long time to learn this, is you don't have to be friends with everybody, but it's better if you're friendly with everyone. So not everyone's your friend.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (50:57)
That is very
true.
Dr. Brian Grossman (50:58)
but
you can be friendly with everyone and your life is easier with that. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:02)
It is.
I read a great quote once, treat everyone you meet as if they'll be dead by midnight. Extend to them all the care, kindness and compassion you can and your life will never be the same. And that's it. When we can share kindness and compassion, when we can put ourselves in someone else's shoes and remember that
Dr. Brian Grossman (51:22)
I agree. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:33)
things go much better when we focus on those shared experiences, those things that make us the same, rather than focusing on what divides us. And you can disagree with somebody, but it doesn't mean you hate them, and it doesn't mean you have to be rude and obnoxious to them.
Dr. Brian Grossman (51:46)
Right. And it's so little.
Right. Right. No, I'll tell you a funny historical story. So we're getting ready to move full time to Henderson, Nevada, which is right outside of Las Vegas. So all of you listening in Australia and Tasmania, please come visit. I want to come visit you guys as soon as I can. Just a hop, skip, and a jump today on a jet. so we're in 20 minutes. I know. I know. I took the flight. I took the flight.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (52:18)
still about 12 hours no 20
Dr. Brian Grossman (52:24)
twice. it's, ⁓ well, talk about treating people well. So you can tell how shy and withdrawn I am from this talk. I'm on the flight going to Australia, and I got the exit row bulkhead seat. So I was in heaven. slept. ⁓ I stayed up the first half of the flight and slept the second half of the flight and woke up and stayed up to get rid of jet lag.
but I was very friendly with the whole flight crew. And on the second time I got to go Australia, it was the second flight crew, but we were supposed to leave LAX Los Angeles International at midnight and there was a thunderstorm somewhere. So we were delayed. Well, this time, instead of landing in Auckland, we went to Sydney and I had to get on another plane to Perth. And...
We get on the plane, the flight crew recognized me, we're chatting, and they said, you might miss your flight to Perth. And I said, no, I am not spending my first day, nine hours in the airport overnight. Not by any means. You get the pilot to call ahead and you tell them, Dr. Grossman has to be on the flight to Perth. And I'm a nobody. I mean, I'm like not known, I'm working for a seminar company.
And lo and behold, we land, they open the bulkhead seat, and there was a medical doctor on board. And they yell his name and my, Dr. Grossman, get your butt moving. And we ran down the tramway. And I bet the flight crew, I bet the two that were serving our area dinner. So they were coming to Perth later in the evening. Well, it turns out
They had to go to South Africa first. So my luggage went to South Africa. I didn't get my suit till the next morning, but it did come and they did take me out to dinner for that bet. But I'll tell you a funnier one. So our connection, what binds us? What do we all?
connect to. We want to be as healthy as we can. We want to be as friendly as we can. We want to connect with others. So I'm in 29 Palms, one hour north of Palm Springs by a famous national monument called Joshua Tree National Monument. There's a bunch of rock songs about that area. You can look them up on YouTube. we're walking a Bull Mastin, an Australian Shepherd and a Corgi and our two grandkids. And the Shepherd got away from me.
and starts racing down the road and then down the street to the highway. Well, my grandson, I couldn't keep up with him. And my wife had just had knee replacement surgery. So I gave her the leash for the bull Mastin and I'm running. And our neighbor, four blocks away from our house, saw what was happening, got in his truck, raced down the road. The shepherd jumped in the truck. He's a big guy. He picked up my grandson by his head, put him in the truck, drives up to me and says,
⁓ You left something. And I laughed. And I said, thank you very much. My name's Brian. We're having a barbecue later today. Please come join us. And he says, I know you. You're the liberal dog owner. And I said, what does that mean? And he says, well, you have the corgi who barks when you walk her. And I know you're in mental health. I'm a Marine. You're a liberal. And I said, well, what has that got to do with anything?
And he says, well, you I'm not. And I said, well, let me ask you four or five questions. And he says, go for it. I said, do you believe in safe communities? He says, yeah. I said, do you believe in healthy families? Yeah. Do you believe in education? He says, yeah. I said, do you believe in crime prevention? He says, yeah. I said, anything we disagree on here? And he says, no. And I said, did you grow up as a kid telling everybody who your parents voted for? He says, no, we never talked about
I said, any other questions, your evaluation's done, you owe me $300. And he laughed and I said, come on over. And I couldn't help myself. He brought over some chicken to barbecue and like not a six pack of beer. We only had like 30 people. He brought over a case of beer and a case of soda. And I said, oh, everybody, this is our conservative Marine. And everybody burst out laughing. And you know, it's like.
We're connected by our commonality 99 % more than our differences. And just dealing with the emotion, I mean, can't tell you I feel so much better here in the States. I literally had to go to the Apple store, because I had just gotten an iPhone, to learn how to turn off all the news notifications. And I figure if the world's coming to an end, I'll get alerted some.
But otherwise, I just need to listen to five minutes of news in the morning, maybe five minutes of news in the evening, some business news for the leadership training I do, and that's it. And I am so much happier because I control what I can control. Our state representatives, we had trouble before my mom passed away. The Medicare people said that we had to sell my mom's house. And I said, not after paying taxes for 80 years.
I wrote our local representatives and all of a sudden 24 hours later we had her medications in the mail and her Medicare checks coming in to pay for in-home care because it's less expensive than hospitalizing. And so if you reach out, if you're proactive, if you, you know, to stay back on the topic and let's just circle back to where you and I started, it's ask questions, be assertive, ask for what you need.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (57:54)
Yeah.
Dr. Brian Grossman (58:22)
look it up on the internet, somebody out there can help. If they don't have the full answer, you could at least get connected to community. And that feeling of not being isolated alone is worth more than anything because there's always tips and tricks on nutrition or health or whatever. mean, I remember that after that group where I said, you know, why don't you put electrodes in our arm?
We had a support group that developed. when the ladies, you know, I was a teenager, the ladies came over to our house and I made coffee for the first time. And one of them got up and said, ⁓ this is tar. Let me show you how to make coffee. So, you you're always just learning. And it's, if you can accept, I have this hardship, I'm going to overcome it as best I can, not ignore it, be proactive.
yell and scream when you need to, do something fun for yourself frequently, take a break when you need, it gets so much easier. It just does. But it doesn't mean that it's not hard. mean, being a parent is hard anyway. Being a parent with someone who has special circumstances is difficult and there are ways to connect and unite and find hope.
And one of my favorite movie lines from the movie, Shawshank Redemption is, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And then my quote after that is, when it's paired with proactive action. Because just hope by itself doesn't do anything. You have to do something to make the hope come true.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (1:00:07)
And that I... No! That I think is the perfect spot for us to end today's episode but we will get you back to keep talking...
Dr. Brian Grossman (1:00:09)
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go up there. I get passionate!
Sarah Jordan-Ross (1:00:25)
keep talking emotional regulation and all of those different things that we can do and community and connection because that's what's really really important. Brian I want to thank you, sorry, I want to thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom.
Dr. Brian Grossman (1:00:36)
Yes, yep, thank you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (1:00:45)
for sharing your experiences and for finding the laughter in those hard spaces. To everyone listening, especially if you're raising a child with extra needs or if you were that child once, please know your voice matters and as Brian said, speak up, it's okay to say what you need and find your tribe. You're not invisible.
There are people out there who want to help you, so connect with them. If this conversation has moved you, follow the show, leave us a review, share the episode with somebody who's walking the same road.
and we will put links to Brian's work in the show notes so that you can connect with him.
and we will get him back another time. if there's anything that you would like us to talk about, Brian, what do think we should unpack next time?
Dr. Brian Grossman (1:01:44)
You know what, Sarah, if it's me, I'd like to just focus on what it's like dealing with the different ages. So little kids, teenagers and young adults. And we'll talk about strengths and parenting. But for you on your show, and I'm sure you've done this, but if you haven't done it in a while is ⁓ it's been a while since I've done it. So I don't want to be the one.
get a couple of parenting experts to talk about parenting with special needs to help parents with patience and communication and how to deal with kids when they get into a, when they are being ⁓ defiant because that's a normal part of growing up. That's actually a strength that that would be my thought. But ⁓ you are such a pleasure to talk to. You ask great questions. I would love to come on your show.
And for any billionaires who are out there, if you want to transport Sarah's family to the States, I will host her. If you want to transport me to Tanzania, let's make that happen. But maybe I'll go on a book tour if all things align. But anyway, what a pleasure. You are marvelous.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (1:03:01)
Thank you. And on that note, until next time, keep speaking what's real, keep healing what's hidden, keep showing up for the ones who feel unseen. Remember your story matters, so please share it. I'm Sarah Jordan-Ross and this has been Taboo Talk.