What does it mean to truly live your life—not the one others expect of you, but the one that's actually yours? In this raw, rich conversation, Carmen Walsh joins Sarah for a soul-level deep dive into boundaries, burnout, self-worth, and why caregiving can shape—and sometimes hide—who we really are. If you’ve ever been the one holding it all together, if you’ve ever lost yourself in the process of caring for others, this episode will feel like a breath of truth, healing, and hope. You’ll walk away with permission to stop performing and start being.
“I no longer wanted to be a supporting actor in my own life.” — Carmen Walsh
“You can't pour from an empty cup. But when you’re full, you get to bless others from the overflow.” — Carmen Walsh
“Stop worrying about disappointing others. Start worrying about disappointing yourself.” — Carmen Walsh
Carmen is a heart-led guide, community-builder, and emerging author of her upcoming self-love memoir, chronicling her journey through grief, unhealthy relationships, and self-reclamation. She co-hosts Shine Circle Connect with Debbie Prediger, holds space for women to speak their truth without shame, and is passionate about helping others find their voice, their boundaries, and their way home to themselves.
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Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:01) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast that breaks the silence, fosters hope, and talks about the tough stuff so you never have to feel alone. If you're new here, I'm Sarah, I'm a mum of three, a wellness coach, a remedial massage therapist, and I'm guide for real, raw stories behind caregiving, chronic illness, burnout, and grief.
And today's episode is going to be a really special one, I think. And I've been looking forward to today's conversation ever since I read a sneak peek of Carmen Walsh's upcoming book. Then the other day I was privileged to be on a Shrine Circle Connect call that Carmen co-hosted with Debbie Prediger. Now Carmen asked us a question.
that affected all of us. And that simple question was, how do you show up for others without expecting anything in return? Now on that call, a lot of us realized that we've been there. We've been caregivers. We've been the ones holding things together for somebody else. We've been stretched, we've been exhausted, but we've still shown up. Now,
Karma knows that journey deeply. From her early years caring for her brother, to carrying the grief of losing him, her life has been shaped by caregiving. It's part of why she doesn't know how to do shallow. She goes deep because life took her there. And that's what makes today's conversation so special. We're going to talk about what it means to show up without conditions.
and to live from that place of raw, real depth. Carmen, thank you so much for being here.
Carmen Walsh (01:48)
Thank you, Sarah, for having me and for that beautiful introduction.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (01:52)
You're very welcome. Now I would love to go back to that call when you asked us about showing up without expectations. So what was behind that question and why did it feel so important to raise it in that space?
Carmen Walsh (02:07)
Yeah, I don't, I don't really answer the second question so much as to why it was just more of an intuitive thing like this is the question to ask. The question itself has been important for me. And it came from another coach, you know, who
prompted us to think of a time where that something that we did that we were super proud of. And so I just I reworded that a little bit, you know, to make it more specific. But that example, the one I gave in our shine circle meeting with Debbie of being there and for my mom and
Asking her questions to get to the root of how she really felt rather than trying to do the convenient thing
When I was asked that question and I remembered that, that's been such a core place for me to go to remember who I am and what I can do in this world.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:07)
that's an important space to come from is that knowing who you are and what you're here to do. And I know on that call too, it almost seemed like you were going to apologize for taking us so deep because there was a lot of emotions brought up for a lot of people on that call. And then you went, actually, you sort of said sorry for going so deep and then you said, but
Carmen Walsh (03:24)
Where are you?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (03:32)
I really don't know any other way to be.
I think that my guess is that comes from those experiences that you've had that have taken you to those hard places. ⁓ And I know I read a little bit of your book. Do you want to unpack that? What's happening with your book for us?
Carmen Walsh (03:43)
Yeah, I would imagine so, yeah.
Sure, yeah,
it's it's in progress. I'm like about 30,000 words in on the first draft. And it's something I've wanted to do for a really long time, but I wasn't ready. want the the story wasn't complete enough, you know, in my own life to make the book. And it's I'm calling it a self love memoir. It's my journey to
learning who I am and learning to love myself. And I believe that's the journey we're all on.
And for me, the reason that it seems it feels so important is because what you were speaking about, right? When I was young, I was focused on my brother. I was focused on helping my parents. And because I was so externally focused, I lost sight of who I was. And, you know, one of the many stories that will be in the book is
two months after my brother died, he died when I was 15. And he was the most important person in my life. And I met my first boyfriend, my first actual boyfriend, and in two months after my brother died.
dated for six years, got married, had no idea who I was. So that marriage didn't last and thankfully. And it just, I repeated that again and again. So relationships have always been that piece of my life that I just couldn't get right. I'm like really intelligent, I'm really dedicated, hardworking, do all the things, but relationships I was just miserable at.
And so that journey of finally getting to a point where I realized that I was the least common denominator in all those unhealthy relationships and realizing that meant I needed to do something about myself. It wasn't about meeting the right guy. It was about being who I am.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:52)
Mm-hmm.
It was about being.
Carmen Walsh (06:04)
being the healthiest version of me. Then the right guy could come along and I could be in that relationship.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:08)
And that can.
And that can be a really hard journey to go on and really with what was going on in your life when you were starting to figure out who you were and how you wanted to be in relationships and that you'd lost your brother who was the most important person in your world and then
somebody comes along to sort of fill that gap but they can't really but it's also you were so caught up in seeing yourself as the carer, the sister, the daughter that was in that and you didn't really know who you were outside of those labels.
So what shifted when you started to figure that out? Apart from that you stopped getting into unhealthy relationships because you realized what the real issue was. And it's a sad thing that it takes us hitting our heads up against the same brick wall so many times before we finally go, hang on. If the same thing keeps happening, maybe it's got something to do with me.
Carmen Walsh (07:00)
you
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah. yeah. I'm like, it's the good news, bad news situation, right? The bad news, it's you. You can't blame all the guys, right? The bad news is it's you. Not that they didn't do unhealthy things or weren't, know, but the good news is it's you because that means you have control over that. You can do something about that.
It's not, oh, well, it was me. I'm never going to find the right guy. It's, oh, oh, I get to change and allow in something better. So yeah, it is. I know sometimes you're like, really, did it have to take this long? Really? But hey, I was in a very unhealthy relationship when this dawned on me. I was in yet another.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:59)
Generally.
Carmen Walsh (08:08)
unhealthy relationship and it was severe. lot of trauma, alcoholism, all the things and I remember to your point about like, didn't know who I was, I was showing up as the supporting role, right? And I remember I got involved, actually, Danette May was the first like coach that I had and
I joined her, it was literally a 30 day program for food, exercise and meditation. I was desperate. I was in such a bad spot. And it was just like a Facebook thing and I'm like, 30 days, I need something. Yes, please. And a year later, went to an event, an in-person event and knew no one outside of the
just in the Facebook group, you know, had met no one in person and everything. And up to this point in my life, women felt like competitors, you know, with the talking behind your back and all that. And I'm like, I am going to go into a room with a thousand women. Like, what am I doing? And part of me was just like, this is going to be terrible. And yet, because I had grown in that year,
I allowed myself to be open to it. And it was a beautiful experience. And that sense of community, that's when that started for me. And I've been in other communities and you have to find the right ones, right? It's super important. They have to feel good and safe.
Yeah, that I was in a really bad spot. And it did I didn't get out of it right away. You know, it took me a while. And that's part of the book, right? I'm actually going through back going through notes that I took like journaling that I did during that time period is not something I normally did. But because I was going through so much.
and growing so much and being so intentional about it. I was doing a lot of journaling and I was in counseling. was like, you know, and I'm going back through these journals now I'm going, wow, like I was a mess, you know, and I'm so grateful to be where I'm at now. It's such a blessing.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:24)
to have come out the other side of that and you did the hard work that you needed to do and now you're in that so much better space and I guess you've found your tribe. That was another thing I wanted to touch on with you was that importance of community and connection because so often when we are in those
Carmen Walsh (10:34)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:49)
bad places, we feel like we're completely alone in what's going on. But as we saw on that connect call, when you're in the right space, you will find that space where you can share your story and other people will understand because they've been there too. And I know that was part of why
I started this podcast was that I'd seen as a massage therapist people going through difficult experiences and feeling completely isolated. But the simple fact was that they were talking to me about it and I was hearing it was very much a same story different day. And I was like, well.
If they're all talking to me about it, they're not alone in what they're going on, but the problem is that they're not talking about it.
Carmen Walsh (11:47)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I for sure was one of those people up until that point, right? So not until the end of I'd say actually 2018. Did I feel like I was in a community where I could really just be myself, share all the things, no matter how ugly they were. And that was going to be okay. And I was going to be loved in that space. And that made all the difference.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:48)
So we need to...
Carmen Walsh (12:16)
honestly.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:16)
It does being able to find that space where you can just go, this is me.
and that you'll be accepted and loved for that.
Carmen Walsh (12:25)
Yeah, yeah, it's, I think that is, in fact, I used to do, and I may do them again, but I used to do something called soul chat. And that was exactly the reason for that. It was, you know, this is a place that you can tell me anything, I'm not going to judge you, you know, let's get it out. Because that's when it's just in your head. That's the worst.
place for it to be. You know, like it's once you it's amazing. Once you say it out loud, or even if you journal it, like that can also help. But if you can say it out loud to another human being, and not feel judged. It just opens up, it just relaxes you so that you're like, okay, I'm not a horrible person. I don't have to beat myself up about this, you know. And then that allows you to
look at it from another perspective or just come up with a solution that you couldn't see before. But when you're in that, you're really in a fight or flight thing or a freeze, really. I can't talk about this. So you can't do anything about it. Until you're going to actually say it, you can't change it. I think it's... Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, until you can feel it, you can't heal it.
Carmen Walsh (13:44)
It's just true. it's community is incredibly powerful.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:48)
we get so used to holding it all in sometimes to the point that we don't even know what it is we're feeling or what it is we're holding on to but if you can find that way to get it out whether that's that you talk it out with a friend or you journal it or you find some space that you can just go and scream your head off or
If you're one of those like me that holds everything in your body and starts to notice this tightness and tension that you just go, I have no idea what that's about.
either, yeah, do something physical, whether it's bash up a pillow, because it's not going to care. Or for me, I go to a taekwondo class because there's great about that of I can punch things, I can kick things, I can scream my head off and it's perfectly acceptable. So I think everybody needs to find their way of just getting it out.
Carmen Walsh (14:26)
Right?
Love that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:47)
and what works
for one person isn't going to necessarily work for somebody else. But try what everybody else tells you and then find the thing that works for you.
Carmen Walsh (14:57)
Yeah, yeah, I've definitely I've punched the pillows, I've screamed into the pillow. I've screamed in my car driving down the road and like, you know, beat up the steering wheel. Dancing. Just like rocking it out, shaking your entire body. good. Like, yeah, I find what works for you. But you've got to move it out. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:17)
Because then once it's out, you can actually have a look at it and figure out what you can do about it.
Carmen Walsh (15:23)
Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, it's like this unidentifiable monster until you actually let it out, right? And then you're like, I see you. OK, I can do something about that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:25)
as opposed to the
Yeah.
Yeah, when you can see
the dragon, you can slay it. Or you can ask it what it's got to teach you.
Carmen Walsh (15:37)
Yeah, perfect. Absolutely.
Right. Say, why exactly are you bothering me?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:43)
Yeah.
Okay, I'm just trying to think of what else we could... Because your life experiences have taken you you deep and you've learnt a lot. So if somebody listening is in that dark space where you once were, we've already touched on a couple of things that they might be able to to do but...
Those people who are in that caring role, who are giving a lot, sometimes without getting anything back in return. What wisdom would you share with them about boundaries and sustainability because quite often we see
carers end up needing care themselves because they've been so focused on who they're caring for that they've forgotten to pay attention to their own needs. So what would you say to those people?
Carmen Walsh (16:47)
I would say that you are not responsible for anyone else's life and anyone else's happiness. Because I would say for me, beyond my brother who had epilepsy, so it wasn't a life threatening condition.
But I internalized it as such because honestly, it looked like he was going to die every time he had a seizure, right? Turn purple, all the things. It's terrifying. And I was young, right? So it was my whole childhood because he was older than I was. So.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:17)
you were so young.
Carmen Walsh (17:23)
So I took that on. I took on his survival as my job. I took on my parents' peace of mind comfort level as my job. I'm not blaming any. I took that on. And it took me a really long time to realize that none of us can actually
make anyone else happy.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:43)
matter how hard we might try.
Carmen Walsh (17:45)
It's impossible. It doesn't mean they can't be happy, but they have to find their own happiness. You know, and we can amplify each other's happiness. But you can't take someone who is unhappy who has got all these unhealed wounds and do everything to make their life as lovely as possible.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (17:51)
Yes.
Carmen Walsh (18:06)
and think that that's actually going to heal them, that that's going to make them happy so that you can then enjoy life together because it doesn't work that way. It doesn't. It never will. And so that first in-person event I told you about that I went to in 2018, I remember I wrote down, I'm sure I still have it, and I took a journal with me, a brand new journal. And in the first page, I wrote down something like my goal is
I no longer want to be a supporting actor in my own life.
Because that's what I realized that I had done my entire life. The guys I dated, everything. I was a chameleon. I did what I thought was going to fit in with them. I tried to help them with all their things. Their friends were my friends. I didn't have friends of my own. And I was like, I don't have a life of my own.
That is what I would tell people is you have to have your life and you have to make sure that that is honored. So whatever brings you peace, whatever makes you happy, brings you joy, you have to make time for that.
You can't say I'm going to do that after I do all these other things to take care of X, Y, and Z and these people and all. No. First and foremost is what do you need to do to take care of you? And I'm not talking about like going and getting your nails done and getting a massage. And these are all wonderful things. I'm very big proponent of massage and my nails every once in a while. But
I'm talking about, yeah, exactly. I'm talking about taking care of your spirit, right? Taking care of how you feel about yourself when you look in the mirror.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:52)
because that's just fun.
Carmen Walsh (20:07)
That's what's important. And if you look in a mirror and you're exhausted and you don't even know who you are, then it's time to set even more boundaries. And other people can handle the things that you've been doing. I know it's uncomfortable because you're so used to doing all the things. But I will tell you little story about that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:09)
is knowing who you are.
Carmen Walsh (20:34)
So I was used to always showing up, right? Doing the things, especially when my parents asked me to do, like I was there, I'm gonna do the thing. My dad died in 2019. My mom wanted to move back. They had moved into an assisted living facility. She decided she wanted to move back, which is the story we were talking about earlier, right? I found out she really wanted to move back to their home, their house. And...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:52)
Mmm.
Carmen Walsh (20:58)
We had a date set for that move. It's 2020, July 2020. I have symptoms. I think I have COVID. I don't know for sure, but it's possible. Because I had been around some people and I had some symptoms and I thought, I cannot show up to help.
with this move and risk giving germs to especially my mother, who's elderly, but also my siblings. like, this is not, I cannot do this. So I had to make the phone call, like, mom, I can't help.
And I told her why. And she's like, OK, hope you feel better. And it was the best thing that could have happened. Because you know what? They did just fine without me. They got that move done. It was not a problem. The world did not fall apart when I couldn't show up.
And that was one of the biggest lessons for me because quite honestly, I think up until then, I did believe if I did not do all the things, the world was literally going to end.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:08)
How freeing is it to realize that actually you don't have to, that it will keep moving if you take that step back in that time to look after you and sometimes in that example, you taking that step back gave your siblings the opportunity to step up and carry the load. And quite often for carers, particularly,
Carmen Walsh (22:28)
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:34)
they get so used to carrying all of it that even when somebody asks to help they don't know what to tell them to do so it's like, nah I've got it, it's fine.
Carmen Walsh (22:43)
Right.
yeah, it's easier to just do it yourself than to think about what could I have them do? It's absolutely we keep it going for ourselves. It's amazing. It's just such a habit, which is really all it is. It's a habit. And it can be broken.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:52)
Mm.
Yeah.
And
yes, and I know one of the other things that I learned when my mum was sick, I cared for her through cancer journey. And quite often different support agencies or different nurses would ask, well, what do you need? How can we help you? And she said, and I quote, actually, can you just give me a list, like a menu of things that I can choose from?
Tell me what's available and I'll tell you, I'll pick from those which ones will will help me. Cause actually having to sit here and think about what I want or what I need is just another decision to make and it's too damn hard.
Carmen Walsh (23:42)
That's valid.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:42)
But as soon as
somebody said, well, would, cause I was, was caring for her, but I also had a young son.
Harrison was just under two when my mum passed and I was pregnant with my second son. He was born two weeks after my mum passed. And one of the people that we had coming in that was talking to mum said, well, would it actually be helpful if somebody could look after Harrison?
so that Sarah could take you to appointments without having to to juggle him and I was like can we do that yep if that's what you need yeah we can do that but it was just that she hadn't even thought that that that was a possibility
Carmen Walsh (24:20)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's so normal, right? Because I guess we're probably about the same age. don't know. I'm 50. I'll be 53 this year.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:33)
That's the...
I think I might be a tiny bit older than you.
Actually, it's the other way around. I'll be 50.
Carmen Walsh (24:53)
But what I was going to say is, as much as we are so used to doing all the things, the previous generation, our mother's generation, they didn't know how to ask for help. We're finally learning it at this point. It's like 45, 50. We figure out, I don't actually have to do all this by myself. I can ask for help. Our mothers had no idea.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:03)
yeah.
Carmen Walsh (25:18)
So you're right. You even think about it like, what's somebody else going to do? I don't know. Because you just do all the things, and you don't even think about what they all are. You just do it. It's kind of this automatic action you take. And yeah, for somebody to ask you what it's like, I don't know. Give me ideas. Yeah. I think that's Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:18)
and we also get the if and
Yeah. Tell me what I can ask for.
And I think particularly like for that older generation too, they just got in and did what needed doing and a lot of times they didn't see that what they'd done was anything extra special. Like my mum, like there's five of us, but I was younger by a big gap and my parents
separated when I was seven, divorced when I was ten, and my mum raised me by herself. She also, she started in the district courts and then shifted to local courts and she worked her way up and became the highest ranking female clerk of the court north of Newcastle and the fifth highest in the department, which I thought was pretty darn impressive and
me who she raised by herself also has a university education. And I said something to her one day about how incredible I thought what she'd done was and she comes out with the, I just did what I had to do. didn't, it wasn't that special. was just, yeah. So, and that generation of women too, they never put themselves first because in their heads,
Carmen Walsh (26:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:54)
That was selfish. Therefore, wrong.
Carmen Walsh (26:57)
Yes.
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:01)
Whereas I think we're slowly starting to figure out that if I collapse in a screaming heat because I haven't been looking after myself, what happens to my family? So then which is the selfish thing?
Carmen Walsh (27:11)
Great.
Absolutely. that's, I think that was actually in the preview of the book. I think, and like get selfish because, that's what we absolutely were taught that. If you put yourself first, that's being selfish, that's being self-centered, but it's not, it's self-care. like you said, if you don't, and I remember this is just the best example.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:20)
Yeah.
Carmen Walsh (27:37)
analogy for this is if you don't put your oxygen mask on when the plane's going down, you can't help anybody else because you'll be in a heap on the floor.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:47)
they're all gonna trip over you.
Carmen Walsh (27:50)
Right. You're going to cause more problems. So you can't help and you're going to cause more problems. It's exactly the same. When we don't take care of ourselves, put ourselves first, put our self care first, we will cause more problems for the people we love. But that is a, that's a new concept for our generation. I mean, like you said, we're slowly getting there. but yeah, we are the ones that are making that change.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:18)
and thank goodness that we are because then hopefully those coming after us won't have to learn the lessons quite as much of a hard way as we do.
Carmen Walsh (28:20)
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:28)
So I always like to ask this question towards the end of our time together. And that is, because the show is called Taboo Talk and it's called that for a reason. It's talking about those things that we so often go through but don't talk about. So what's the one conversation you think we need to be having that we're not?
Carmen Walsh (28:34)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm. I think there was a lot of them. And it's funny, I used to actually have a podcast for a little while with a friend of mine, and we called it Words Never Spoken. And so it had the exact same premise, right, of what we were just talking about and what your show is about. I think because of what I'm working on right now, and where my focus is, I would answer that as
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:53)
Yeah.
Carmen Walsh (29:12)
The one thing we're one thing that we're not talking about that we really should be is that
we need to live our life. And by that, I mean, not what other people expect of us, but what is actually true to us. And we're not taught to
really focus on that. We're not we're taught to fit in. We're taught to play nice. We're taught to get along. We're taught to make other people comfortable. What we're not taught to do is get to know ourselves really deeply. And so that we can honor ourselves. And I think that that is
just critically important for our individual health, which then affects our communities, right? That ripple effect is worldwide. If we don't get to know who we are, so we can live the lives that are true to us, we will be frustrated.
We will be unfulfilled. We will look for things to make us feel better temporarily, which are usually not healthy. It is just this cascade of negative after negative after negative when we don't start with, who am I? What actually makes me happy so that I can do that? I think that is not
talked about.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:47)
knowing who we are and what's important and more what we're meant to do in our time here because I believe each and every one of us is here to serve a particular purpose that only we can but we're not going to be able to do that if we don't know who we are what our values are what it is that
drives us, what it is that truly lights us up and makes us happy. So thank you so much for bringing that one to light and reminding us that it's important to know who that person we look at in the mirror is and to make sure that the life you're living is her life or
Carmen Walsh (31:31)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:38)
his life, that it is the life you want to be living, not the one that you think you should, because a lot of us are very guilty of shooting on ourselves.
Carmen Walsh (31:48)
Absolutely. It's a good habit to stop immediately.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:53)
Yes.
but learning that's a bit tricky.
Carmen Walsh (32:00)
it takes practice.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:01)
Yeah.
And especially when we're so conditioned to take care of everybody else and everyone else's first, particularly if we have spent a lot of time in that caring role. It's just what we do. We're wired to think, what does that person need? How can I help there?
Carmen Walsh (32:21)
Yeah. And that's a beautiful way to be. I catch myself sometimes when I talk about it, because I'm like, I don't want to make people think that I don't care about other people. I don't want to do things for other people. It's like, no, I absolutely do. But I want to do it from a place of overflow. I want to do it from a place where I'm just so filled up that I want to do all these things for you, not from a place of, if I don't do this, you're going to be mad at me.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:24)
It is.
No.
Carmen Walsh (32:47)
you're not going to think I love you. All that. That is heavy, terrible feeling stuff. That's what we don't want anymore. But yeah, when we fill ourselves up, then we get to give out to all the people. We get to bless all the people when we take care of ourselves first.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:09)
That's it, because when you do know who you are and what's important to you, you can pour from that overflowing cup. And we all deserve to be able to do that because, yeah, being able to care for others from that space is so much more amazing than the, I'm doing this because I have to, because I don't want to deal with what's going to happen if I don't. So yeah.
Carmen Walsh (33:33)
Mm hmm. Yes, and actually that I'm
glad you said that because that's another point that makes this tricky, right? Because when you stop doing all the things you used to do, because you realize you're not doing them because you want to you're doing them because you feel like you have to. And you decide you don't want to do that anymore because you're taking on this new life and this you know, other people aren't going to like it.
Right? It's going to take, there is going to be an adjustment period for everyone. You know, it's not only hard for you because it's a new habit. It's hard for them because they're like, who are you? I don't know you anymore. You used to do this stuff for me and now you're just saying no? Like, what the heck is going on? So I would put that out there.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:23)
And don't think it's all entirely
the age that we are either. Because there's that whole... the gifts of perimenopause and... and menopause of the... Yeah, I'm actually... No! I don't want to do that so I'm not going to.
Carmen Walsh (34:38)
No.
That is a gift, actually, yes. I don't care anymore. And I just, yeah. What was I gonna say?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:42)
Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's also
the wisdom that comes with that point in our lives where it's like, we done a certain amount and it's like, yeah, I know that doesn't work and it's certainly not working for me anymore. So if it's not working for me, odds are it's not really working for anybody else either. So we need to, to shift things. yes, when you, to a way that is more aligned with
Carmen Walsh (35:03)
Yes.
Try a different way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:15)
who we are with the values that we want to live and those things that will allow us to be there and show up for others in the way that we want to show up.
Carmen Walsh (35:25)
Yeah, I think when we can be ourselves and not have to perform, you know, we can just show up, we can speak our truth and trust that that's all that actually matters. And how other people
receive it is actually their business, not ours. I think, speaking for me personally, I spent a lot of energy managing other people's feelings. You know, how are they going to take it? How are they going to feel if I do or say such and such? Before I did or said such and such, right?
So all of this predictive behavior, which never allowed me to be me.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:13)
And quite often it's what they would, all those things that you say they're thinking or how they're going to react. It's probably not. And a very wise friend of mine says, what other people think of me is absolutely none of my business.
Carmen Walsh (36:24)
Probably not.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:31)
But we spend so much time worrying about what everyone else thinks. But I think you and I today have both said it's time to start worrying about what you think and what you feel and living from that space instead of the fear of what's going to happen if you do.
Carmen Walsh (36:49)
Yeah, yeah, I will say when I decided to leave my full-time job earlier this year, and I remember having a moment where I in a call and in a group coaching call, and I forget exactly what we were talking about, but I remember.
writing down, I...
don't want to try to think of how I worded it doesn't really matter but I the gist of it was I wanted to care more about whether I was disappointing myself versus disappointing others and I didn't say that very well but right I I spent so much time worrying about not disappointing other people
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:28)
I get it.
Carmen Walsh (37:36)
And I finally realized that what I was doing was disappointing myself. And I could no longer do that and face myself.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:47)
And that's the thing, it's harder to disappoint yourself and get back up from that.
Carmen Walsh (37:52)
But we always can, right? Because I mean, looking back, I did plenty of things that I'm not proud of. And I think it's so important that we don't judge ourselves. Like, I judged myself super harshly most of my life. And that was one of the bigger shifts I made in the recent years that
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:53)
Yes.
Carmen Walsh (38:15)
Judging is a complete waste of time and it is so counterproductive.
because what we really need is more love, not judgment. We need more acceptance and for ourselves, you know, instead of looking back at a thing that you did or you said, and you feel like that was a mistake. And how could I be so stupid? And right, all that stuff. And you just keep that on all on top of you. So you feel this big and you don't deserve anything and you should be punished and all the you know, like
that just puts you deeper in a hole. Whereas if you can go, okay, well, that did not turn out well, you know, and I don't want to do that again. Why did I do that? You know, and with compassion and curiosity, and then you can learn something from it, and then you can choose something different, you know, but...
Judgment I feel is a huge, huge, huge issue.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:17)
And it's something we need to work really hard on, for ourselves, because we're our own worst enemy when it comes to that. We're our own harshest critic. But instead of judging your past self, you need to look at it with eyes of kindness and compassion and say, okay.
That really sucked, but what can I learn from it and what can I do different so that I don't have to feel like that ever again?
Carmen Walsh (39:51)
Yeah. And there's one little thing. sorry. Go ahead. There is it just made me think of one thing and it was just it felt like such a simple thing. But it was and it's years ago now, but I heard something and then I remember it made an impact for me and I shared it with a friend and years later, she said, you know, I still think about what you told me and I use that and it was
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:52)
And I think... No, you go. ⁓
Carmen Walsh (40:15)
It was the advice to talk to yourself or think about yourself because it doesn't require you saying it out loud like you would your best friend. Talk to yourself like you would to your best friend. You wouldn't say, you look so freaking ugly today. You would never say that. You would never say that was the dumbest thing anyone's ever done.
Like, how could you be so stupid? You would never say that to your best friend. And yet, how many times do people do that in the mirror? They go, you are the dumb. Why are you so stupid? Right? All the things. You're so ugly. Why would I? You know, like, we... It's when you start actually being aware of the stuff that you think about yourself, it is terrible. I mean, for most people, I think it's terrible.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:41)
No.
Yeah.
Carmen Walsh (41:04)
I know for me it was. mean, I don't think I'm alone in this. And so like I said, I had a good friend that I gave her, she was struggling and I gave her that advice. And years later, she's like, that stuck with me. When I'm having a bad time, I remember that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:06)
Yeah. Nope.
There's so many things that we say to ourselves that we would never let out of our mouths near anybody else to just be like, no. Even if it was true, even if it was something, we just wouldn't say it. I I know I say to my kids, if you're going to say something to somebody, think first, is it kind, is it helpful, is it true? If it's not, then don't say it.
Carmen Walsh (41:31)
No, right? Even if it's warranted.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:44)
I think we also need to apply that rule to ourselves. If you wouldn't say it to somebody else, don't say it to yourself.
Carmen Walsh (41:51)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:53)
And I think that
is the perfect note for us to end on. I to thank you so much for being here. I've had such a fun time chatting with you.
Carmen Walsh (42:04)
Me too, Sarah. Thank you so much.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (42:06)
You're very welcome. And thank you for being so open, honest and courageous in the things that you shared. I think a lot of our listeners will be able to say, yeah, I hear that. I see that I know where it fits in my life.
For everyone listening, if you have walked through seasons like we've spoken about today, where you've been caring, where you've gone through those really hard times and felt all alone, where you've been harsh to yourself, just remember, you're not alone. And if you've ever felt like your depth was too much for the world,
Let what we've said be a reminder that there is strength in tenderness, is strength in kindness and compassion and that it is really really important that you live your life. So let's all of us keep living like it matters. Make every day special.
and let's carry the wisdom that we've brought with us up to this point forward in how we love, how we serve and how we show up for one another. Thanks for being with us today. I'm Sarah Jordan Ross and this has been Taboo Talk. Until next time, remember your story matters so share it because you never know when it might be your story that changes someone else's.