In this powerful and heartfelt episode, Sarah sits down with Loretta Omland — a death and legacy coach who helps families prepare for life’s hardest transitions with courage, clarity, and compassion. Together, they dive into the conversations most people avoid: death, dying, grief, and what we leave behind. They discuss how preparing for death can actually unlock a more vibrant life, what happens when we don’t talk about the tough stuff, and how simple steps — like creating a will or talking to your kids about death — can bring peace, prevent family conflict, and create a lasting legacy. With laughter, love, and a few goldfish funeral stories thrown in, this is a must-listen for anyone navigating caregiving, loss, or legacy planning.
“Every decision made in grief will be questioned — over and over again.” – Loretta Omland
“Grief is just love with nowhere to go. But maybe having those conversations gives it somewhere to go.” – Sarah Jordan-Ross
“Talking about death doesn’t make it bigger. It tames the dragon.” – Sarah Jordan-Ross
Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:01) Hey everybody, welcome back to Tabby Talk with Sarah, the podcast that breaks the silence, fosters hope, and talks about the tough stuff so you never have to feel alone. Around here we talk about the raw, real, healing conversations about that stuff that we don't like talking about. Grief, caregiving, burnout, illness, and the beautiful, messy middle in between. All of that. Because when we start talking about the tough stuff, that's when we realize we were never ever meant to carry it alone.
that so many other people are going through the same stuff. And today I'm talking with somebody whose work sits right at the heart of that truth, Loretta Omland. Loretta helps families prepare for life's hardest transitions, the conversations around death, dying and what we leave behind. But she approaches it with compassion, clarity and grace that makes it feel a little less heavy.
more like a gift. And I'm having so much fun with all the conversations I'm having lately. So we get to talk about all sorts of fun stuff. And I'm sure Loretta and I that this conversation will be no different. So welcome. I am so, happy to have you here.
Loretta (01:19)
Thanks, Sarah, so much for, I appreciate so much of you inviting me and having me and all of the work you do. I was sharing with you earlier that I've listened to most of your podcasts and amazing, absolutely. Your topics are so helpful and I am honored to be in the lineup of your guests. So thanks for having me.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (01:40)
Yeah, I called it Taboo Talk for a reason because I wanted to be able to talk about whatever it happened to be that I felt like. I get to have great conversations about poop, perimenopause and today, death and dying. So we're going to have some fun. So I want to start with what led you to this work because it's not like somebody wakes up one day and says, I want to talk about death and dying for a living. It's not generally the way we go.
So I would say there's a story behind what got you into that and I would love for you to share that with us.
Loretta (02:15)
You are absolutely right. There is a story. The story actually goes back about 26 years. It's kind of a longer story, so I'll just give you the hit and the short version of it. I and I have it on my YouTube channel. It's called the story of shadow. And it has to do with me being newly divorced and a single mom to one daughter, six year old and living in Colorado away from all of my nuclear family. My daughter begging me for a dog.
us going to the local shelter and finding the perfect addition to our family, bringing her home, having her for just under two years, and then my daughter seeing her die by a car crash. And the immediate and difficult impact that was on my daughter in the very raw and real emotion that I witnessed from her
helped me realize that she learned what death felt like the day that she saw her beloved shadow die. And I saw what it did to her. And all I could think at that time was what if it was me? And what if she had to get news from a pastor or a school teacher or somebody that something happened to me? And I hadn't prepared her not one bit, nor had I prepared myself. And I was a social worker.
didn't have anything together, nothing. So I quickly pulled everything together, got some guardianship papers, did a quick will, started talking to her over and over over and over over. Age appropriate, of course, over a long span of time. But by the time she was maybe in the next six months to a year older, I had her convince that
If I died, her going to live with my sister, her Aunt Lynette would just greatly improve her life and it would be really a good thing. So that was my 26 years ago. I'm fast forwarding to that up to near date. A lot of online work with personal development, which led me to the online world. This was probably five years ago. And just looking at trying to better myself and realizing that there's a really
compassionate online world there where you can share messages and help other people. the calling came out of me. There's many reasons why and how many other entrepreneurs will find that same path. But when you find your calling, you can't shut it down. And my calling was death and dying and helping people also prepare so that not everything that happened with Danielle
you know what happened, but I generally speaking right now work with empty nest moms versus moms with young children just because the whole guardianship issue is a big issue, but blended families, the importance of having your affairs in order and talking about it. People don't talk about it. And the more you talk about it, I'm going to say this so respectfully, but the more acceptable it can become. If you never talk about it,
There's no frame of reference. And then it's scary and big and it's always scary and big, but it's scarier and bigger and more difficult.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:28)
And if we have those conversations, it doesn't have to be this big, scary, horrible thing. And I lost my mum 12 years ago. And in some ways, I'm really grateful that she was really organized. So she had the will together. She had all of that. And she had done from when I was quite young.
Loretta (05:37)
⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:53)
because she worked in the court system. I was like, yeah, she had, she had all of that together and that was great. But it was some of those and my mum had, had cancer and for a long time we thought, yep, she's going to beat it. Although being a trained oncology massage therapist, I was in that, I know stuff that I really wish I didn't. But it was like,
Loretta (05:53)
nice
She knew.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:17)
My mum wasn't just my mum, she was one of my best friends and having those conversations that reality of I am going to lose her, this is going to change. Now there was some things that were like the Christmas dinner set became the everyday dinner set because every day was was special. But there was still those conversations that we didn't have about what happens after. Like, yeah.
She had the big stuff in place, but the little of like, what dress did she want to be buried in? like those little things, like what does she want a coffin to look like? And I also had a 16 month old and I was pregnant. So I'm making all of those decisions in this grief haze. And it was there. I really.
Loretta (06:51)
Yes, yes, their hair, their hair, Yes.
⁓ while grieving, ⁓ Sarah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:14)
Looking back now, I wish I had had somebody like you at that time saying, I know it's hard, but have those conversations so that when you are in that don't know which way's up, you can actually go, this is what she wanted because we had that conversation. And I know for me too, I call it my, my circle of life moment in that
Loretta (07:18)
you
huh. Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:40)
I was holding my mum's hand when she passed with my 16 month old son on my hip. So we were among the last faces that she saw. And then my little Lachlan was born two weeks later. And a comment one of my sisters made when she first saw him was, I know he's a little boy, but
Loretta (07:43)
⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:05)
like looking at one. said, yep it's the eyes. He has my mother's eyes.
Loretta (08:08)
my goodness, Sarah.
Sarah, that just gives me goosebumps. That is so precious and so special.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:16)
And the other funny thing, my mum had this look that my sisters and I termed the stern mother look. You know the one. But even as an adult you go, I know, I'm in trouble. It's really disconcerting that my now 12 year old, he's got that look down pat.
him it's the I'm not getting what I want and so I joked with somebody once yep I'm pretty sure they had a conversation as they passed and she said hey if if she gets out of line just do this
Loretta (08:35)
is.
Look! You're the lock!
my goodness.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:46)
And I can laugh about it now and I have all of the great memories with her to hold on to.
bit.
Loretta (08:57)
Still tugs, it tugs. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:59)
And that's the
thing with grief. We quite often make the mistake of thinking it's linear, but it's not.
Loretta (09:08)
Mm-hmm.
No, not at all. Not at all.
Yeah, that's a lot. That's a very lot. I still have both my mom and my dad. So I haven't been close to death except on my husband's side. His sister passed before his mom and his dad passed first and then his sister and then his mother passed. I've had two uncles pass recently, but I haven't had your experience with
your mom. think that experience, I can't speak to that and I won't be able to speak to that until I can. It's just not possible. can read and study and talk all the talk I want, but I won't know what that feels like. You only have one mom.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:53)
And even when you are prepared, even when you see it coming, it doesn't. Nah.
Loretta (09:56)
Yeah. Yeah, you're not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's so
understandable. I think of all the conversations that can be had that need to be have that should be had. But I don't think any are ever going to prepare you in the immediate event. But I think you touched on a pretty important one to just knowing, you know, what
what would the funeral arrangements have been made? What could have been done ahead of time that would have spared you from making those decisions with your baby on your hip and your little one in tow? What could have been done? And people do the best they can do, and they do, just not realizing, I don't think, how much more they could do and how simple it is when you're not grieving.
Because it and I say that relatively, not not frivolously, but you know, I can go plan my funeral and go, okay, this is kind of cool. I'm not grieving anybody. I'm not in trauma. I'm not in shock. I haven't lost somebody that's life changing. You know, it's different. It's different and making those arrangements. I just think are so important. I yeah, I have
My parents aren't together anymore. They're very happy. They're a happy divorce couple. But my mom on one side has just what you described. She has everything down to her. She knows what clothes she wants to be in. She knows the hairdresser she wants to have. She wants her fingernails painted purple. She just told me that the other day. Of course, I'm kind of helping her. But, you know, we're going to have it easy. We're going to have it easy with the decisions where my mom's concerned.
My dad on the other hand, not so much. He's like, what do I care? I'm dead. Do what you want with me.
So it'll be interesting to have both sides of the coin. It'll be learning.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:55)
Yeah,
and I was definitely very grateful that she'd taken care of the big stuff. And it hadn't even occurred to me, like, because I cared for her the last couple of years of her life, and I would do that all again in a heartbeat because that time was a gift, that time with her. But it didn't occur to me to ask those kind of questions.
Loretta (12:01)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, no,
you wouldn't think of it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:18)
Because part of me didn't want
to talk about it because like, yeah, that makes it a little too real. But I realize now it would have made it so much better.
Loretta (12:28)
Every decision I think that a person has to make while in the state of grief is a decision that's going to be questioned over and over and over again. And then to add a little complexity to it, not very often is there only one child. Were you an only child? my goodness, bless your heart. And I can only imagine, I mean, there's every varying degree to the
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:44)
Youngest of five.
Loretta (12:52)
sibling who says no this is how mom would want it to the sibling that says just make the decision I don't care I don't want to make a decision and everywhere in between and it's emotional yeah
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:02)
Yeah, it definitely
brings out, those situations definitely bring out both the best and the worst in everybody. And if there's any emotional tension, and face it, a lot of us have dysfunctional families or that very different personalities within a family. Like you said, you've got the one who says, this is how it's gonna be.
Loretta (13:10)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:28)
and the one who goes, don't give a crap.
Loretta (13:30)
Make the decision. Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:33)
And then those who go, well, I'm just going to stand back and see which way, which one needs my support more.
Loretta (13:37)
Right.
And death can split families so much as well. Just because, and you know the people don't realize that the more clarity you can give while you're alive and the more clarity you can give first to yourself. Because that's one of the side effects of preparing for death is you're healing yourself or helping yourself heal and make decisions. I mean even down to writing your own eulogy.
Or obituary either one or both It helps you learn about yourself But what the gift it gives to your family then after that is the clarity of nope. This is what mom wants It's written down. Look, we don't even have a choice because this is what she wants so in so much as that is it you can more properly grieve I feel like Just not having to make those decisions and not having to have the confrontations with family members
you know hopefully hopefully there wouldn't be I I'm I'm one of three and I feel like all three of us are solid we will be just fine but until you go through it you don't know that so the test has to come first so yeah yeah how long ago did your mom pass? years?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:43)
Unfortunately.
12 years. It was 12
years in June.
Loretta (14:53)
Wow, yeah, that's crazy.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:55)
and then Lockie was born in July.
Loretta (14:58)
Yeah, wow.
Wow.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:01)
And then we moved to Tasmania when he was a baby. This is that whole fresh start.
Loretta (15:10)
yeah, yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:11)
One of the things that was hard for me was with Harrison who he spent every day of his life with his grandma and when he was about six months old we moved in with with mum to care for her because it just made everything easier and he had at that stage learnt to climb stairs and open doors.
Loretta (15:21)
No.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:34)
So he would go open the door, climb up the stairs and go have breakfast with grandma. That was just what we did every day. So for the first little while he'd get up, he'd go open the door, he'd climb up the stairs and go, where is she? And you try explaining death to a 16 month old.
Loretta (15:39)
how sweet.
Hmm.
Yeah,
no, no, no.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (15:57)
And was the, no, I need to be out of her house. I need to take him out of her house because that was what it was. It was mum's house. It was mum's home. She'd lived there for I think eight, nine years before we'd moved in. So it was definitely, it was my mum's house and everything in it was her. and moving to Tasmania was the best move we've
Loretta (16:01)
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Mm-hmm.
well. Moms. well.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:23)
ever made because it gave me that space to to heal and to rebuild and to go through that grieving process but without having that constant reminder hit me in the face every day.
Loretta (16:36)
Right, right,
yes, yes, yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:40)
And my advice to anyone going through grief, even if it doesn't make sense, do what you need to to get through it and be kind to yourself.
Loretta (16:51)
Yes.
Yes, that's a big one. Definitely.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:57)
Yeah. And yeah,
there's some days that you're fine and there's other days it hits you like a ton of bricks and getting out of bed is really difficult.
Loretta (17:07)
Yeah, yeah, there's a I follow this her name. So many of so many of listeners, I if any if you're anything in the death world hospice nurse, nurse Julie, Julie McFadden, and she did a video and she called it it was somebody else and she was paraphrasing it. So I don't know if I'll do justice to it. But she said grief. It's something with grief mountain. And you can climb up this mountain.
and it's the long hard hard hard hard path and then maybe there's a day when you're going like this and it's so much simpler but then right behind it's another mountain so you climb up that mountain it's hard hard hard hard hard then you get up to the top and then maybe you'll have an easy day and that cycle continues and continues until the mountains never go away but they get further apart
So you can maybe go from every single day to having to climb the mountain every day, day after day, to maybe getting them a week apart or two weeks apart, eventually maybe six months apart or three months, first six months, and it just progressive. But the grief mountain is always there in some capacity. And I thought that was such a good way to describe it with the ebbs and flows of grief. It's never, ever, ever gonna go away.
it's just going to always be there. It's just maybe the separation and the days maybe are not as close together, the difficult days maybe are not as close together as time passes. I thought that was kind of a a good explanation.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:40)
it's a
it's a great one because yeah
Loretta (18:42)
Yeah.
And you mentioned too about how do you teach a 16 month old about death? And I kind of giggled when I heard that because in, I can't remember where it was, but in one of the presentations I did, were, I was talking about children in death and 16 months old. I mean, they're, you know, as far as even their vernacular yet is still developing, trying to get words out and say what words are there. They're not even really
talk in their own baby language, but you know words and whatever. We were kind of joking and laughing. I said, you know what every parent needs to do, but the child needs to be a, I don't know, four years old, five years old, maybe somewhere in there. Get a goldfish because have you ever had a goldfish? They always die. Get a goldfish and name them Swimmy or Suzy or Orangey or whatever you want to name them.
And that goldfish is more than likely going to die. And you can go through that whole process of, OK, we can do a burial. We can say some prayers. We can do all the things with our little goldfish swimmy. And that could give a child a concept of death. Leaves on a tree are another one, too, of the leaves fall off the tree. They die. The tree is barren, but it comes back to life again. That's a little bit more of a, that's a harder concept because the
tree comes back to life but the fish is not going to come back to life and said this to you can't flush the goldfish down the toilet you can't do that you got to have a burial for it proper burial because otherwise you're not teaching your child no no but
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:14)
I get it.
Cuz the little kid
we got
Loretta (20:18)
No, no, exactly. You have to go do the burial proper. But I kind of thought that was forever my go-to for young children, teaching them about death because pretty much everybody has a capacity to get a goldfish and they just don't. Some of them live a long time. I don't know. suppose somebody could tell me, my goldfish lived for five years and my child didn't learn about death, but...
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:18)
people down the toilet? That doesn't work!
one that lived past about six months.
Loretta (20:43)
Exactly. Perfect. Perfect. I mean, it's not perfect for teaching purposes or for educational purposes for real life experience. A goldfish teaches children about death and much I don't know about much easier than a than a kitty cat or a dog or something like that. But even a plant, you know, if you kill a plant, but some there's
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:03)
good at that.
My mother
would be terribly disgusted to hear me say that because she could grow anything.
Loretta (21:09)
⁓
Awwww.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:15)
Unfortunately I did not inherit her green thumb that went to one of my other sisters who like our mother, I think she just sticks a plant in the ground and it grows. How is that fair?
Loretta (21:25)
she had the green. It happens
though. Yeah, it happens. Yeah. But you know, there's another one too that this isn't one that's so equated with young children, but school aged children as well. You know, they, school aged children are taught the fryer drills.
like we used to have, did you have fire drills? mean, we had the fire drills, you had to go and sit and or no fire drills, you had to get out of the building. I'm thinking of the weather drills, you had to sit under the desk or the. yeah, we've always I live in the Midwest, and we've always had the weather drills. But a fire drill is a good example. And you know, it teaches children that in an emergency situation, here's what you do, you know, get your you don't get anything. It's a fire drill. So you
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:53)
We didn't have those.
Loretta (22:10)
go out down this hallway and that hallway and here's your exit route you go stand outside and you stand out there regardless of what the weather is until the school official or somebody calls all clear and then you can come back in. The whole purpose and the whole research behind the idea of fire drills is of course so children know where to go but it gives them that frame of reference so if there were a real fire
the shock and the panic wouldn't be as much. And death is a lot the same way. Talking about it to our children is the same concept of what you're trying to do is not scare them, not shock them, not do all the things, but try to have those gentle conversations that give them that frame of reference. That if all of a sudden mommy's gone, what would your world look like? And it's a stepping stone. Little by little by little by little by little by little by little, it's.
built on and it takes time and age again you know age appropriate for depending on when you're talking to your child but I remember with my six-year-old not shortly after Shadow had died but she was maybe well she was eight when Shadow died seven and a half eight somewhere in there and I had gotten real serious about talking about death and talking about all the terrible topics and I went so far as to we had a
this is more of a safety issue than a death issue but like a passcode on the door it was just her and I and we lived in a safe neighborhood but you never know she had to give me a passcode if somebody ever knocked on the door and she was to not answer the door if she was home alone and she had to she had to ask them what the passcode if they didn't give her the passcode she couldn't open the door and she was so afraid when I first told her about this and
I didn't handle it very good because she was a little bit too young or too, I don't know, I hit it too hard. And the one day I tested her on it, I knocked on the door and she's like, didn't answer, didn't answer. And then I finally, she didn't know it was me. said, Lucy, Lucy was her passcode. Lucy told me I'm supposed to come and get you and take you to your mom. And then she opened the door real slow and she's like, you scared me. And I said,
But I told you the password Lucy and you didn't open the door until I said it. it's okay. Conversations with children are just and all the kids, can get complicated and they can get out of whack real quick. But I think just a parent recognizing when to pull back on them can help a lot as well. But it's a big subject. And death is when you encompass you go here's the whole realm of talking about it to children.
Here's a whole realm like you with your mom being prepared as an adult and everything in between. And then you get into the whole legal part of it. Though, you know, what does your estate planning need to be done and where do your kids know how to find your stuff and all that and why they. It's a loaded conversation and I'll talk about it all day long.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:11)
because you even do a workshop on doing your will your way. Do want to tell us a little bit about that? Because yeah, as heavy as it can be, the legal stuff's important and taking care of it takes a lot of the pressure off those that are left behind.
Loretta (25:15)
Yes, I do.
Yes.
Yes and you know what I've discovered in the process of learning about this and actually helping people gather the information is that the information is everywhere. So there's so many people that think you you know they they hold off because they think number one you have to have an attorney and it's not a bad idea to have an attorney. It's just not always required and knowing when it's a good idea and when it's not a good idea
the more you inform yourself, the better it is. So that's kind of where I started from. And always giving this disclaimer, I'm not an attorney, I'm not giving any legal advice, I'm not gonna tell you what to do, I'm only going to give you information and then you can make the decisions based on that. And what it's evolved into is really is people realize that rating wills, it's really not that big of a deal. If you're in a regular nuclear family with young children, guardianship can be an issue.
that could be an attorney conversation. If you're in a blended family, that can get real messy. Same thing. If you're a regular person with like an empty nest mom and you have this, this, this, and this, or if you're a single parent or a single, you're no longer married, having that information just gives you the knowledge is power kind of realm to work in. And once you realize the parts of a will that are required in your specific state. Now I can't speak abroad.
But in the United States, every state might have little nuances that are different. They're not that difficult. But what I started offering was I do either three or four weeks. It depends on kind of the group that I have going. And I start out and I just give them information. Here's how you pass off your stuff, the different ways. Here's what the different terms are. Here's how to look up what your state requirements are. I'm not going to do it for you. Sorry, you're going to have to do it yourself.
but they realize it's not difficult. A couple of word searches and you can get a whole lot of information and if you can't get that information, then at least you're armed and dangerous. You have your list of questions. You know, okay, I can get myself all the way up to this point and then I feel like I want an attorney. Now I can go get an attorney, but I've saved myself all this attorney time. Questions, questions, questions, questions, questions. So when they're all finished, the ultimate goal is that they
decide themselves, yes, I would like to write my own will and I'm confident and comfortable that I can do that. And that's been pretty much all of the experience. I think I've had one person so far that has said, I think I better go get an attorney. And I'm like, that's a good decision. You know, I can't, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but at least you've gotten this far. And the other thing that happens in the sessions, when you start talking about death, even with adults, then they start realizing, wow.
What kind of a mess am I going to leave my kids when they can't get into my computer, when they can't get into my phone, when they don't have a clue where the title to my car is, or they don't know, you what kind of a mess? And you experienced it with your, with your mom and her funeral, you know, just those decisions. Now fast forward and say somebody has passed and they have nothing put together for your, your loved ones. my gosh. I think, I think the grief.
would turn into anger real quickly. Like I even get mad sometimes at my dad because I'm like, have nothing put together. I'm like, okay, Loretta, stop. You just need to go help him because he's a man. Number one, he doesn't really know what to do. So no, it's like just stop complaining and go help him. But it's, it's a lot.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:57)
always think about it.
I know for my kids, they know where to find passports and birth certificates and that sort of stuff. They all know the password to my phone.
Loretta (29:16)
That's good. Your computer can make it into your computer as well. I know sometimes it's like you hate for a child because you have underage children. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:23)
Yes. So
they, they can let, or if they, if they stopped and thought about it, they'd be able to figure out what it is.
Loretta (29:32)
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:34)
So I've tried to make it as simple as that, that if something unexpected happens, and it's as much that my husband knows, that... but that it's like, even it's in the case of a fire, they know, that's the draw that you grab because it's going to have all the important stuff.
Loretta (29:43)
Right, right.
Yes, yes.
Exactly. Yep.
Yep. Get that first. Get that first. Of course.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:57)
It's like, I
would grab that. My son Harrison in the event of a major disaster would grab a guitar or two because we can't survive without those. Yeah. The thing that seems to have been passed down to my kids from my mum is her musical ability. So I'm grateful for that because she was a classically trained pianist and she could
Loretta (30:04)
⁓ They're pretty important. Yep, they're pretty important. Yeah.
Aww.
Yes.
⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:24)
She could
sight read and all that sort of stuff. I can sing. I've sung my whole life in choirs since I was little and even in church I've done creative team and that sort of thing. playing an instrument? Nah, that seems to have gone to the kids and I'm actually quite happy about that.
Loretta (30:42)
Aww.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:43)
Now one question I always ask everyone and we've sort of touched on it so what's that one conversation that you think we need to be having that we're not and it can be death and dying related or it can be that broader we as a society need to be talking about that particular thing.
Loretta (31:05)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
You know, without a doubt, I believe that once you have your affairs in order and your life in order for your family that you can sit back and go, that's cool, I did it. You can move on to living your best, biggest, most audacious life. And I think that talking about
preparing for death to the point where you haven't done yourself frees you up in a way that I think helps people just realize that every single day is a gift and that every single day you say yes to something exciting and yes to big scary things whatever those are or little scary things just even the little stuff but trying new things and you just mentioned
and instrument and all that stuff. And it kind of threw me in because I've been playing around with some online stuff for vocal lessons. I don't even want to say it because I'm like, no, I can't think. But it's that part of society that says that death is so taboo that we're afraid to talk about it to the point of, I believe, stalling our lives and making us more acceptable and
understanding of it that we don't live as big as we possibly could. And I think we could all live so much bigger, so much more fuller lives in the acceptance of mortality. So I believe in bucket lists, big, small, I don't care what's on your bucket list, but bucket lists, I love them.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:40)
Yes, yes because
then our life and how we live it gets to be the legacy and we get to share it now not be something and our kids get to have those amazing memories of doing those big things with us or having those adventures. Like one of my greatest memories of my mum when I lived in the UK.
Loretta (32:49)
Hmm? Yes! Yes!
Yep. Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:09)
she came over for a holiday and we went to the Channel Islands, particularly Jersey, and we're walking along the beach one day and my mum spots this boat in the distance, just happens to be the ferry that goes to France.
My mom says, let's go to France for the day.
Loretta (33:24)
Oh,
I love it. I love it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:29)
Did my mother speak a word of French? No. When I said that to her she said, yeah but you speak enough to get us in or out of trouble so it's fine.
Loretta (33:37)
my goodness.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:38)
My rule when I was travelling was I had to be able to say, hello, goodbye, please, thank you, and do you speak English? In the language of wherever I happened to be. So I can do that in French, Spanish, and Greek.
Loretta (33:45)
that's perfect.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:51)
I have a few more phrases both in French and Spanish. So, like, I can order beer, I can order wine, I can order a ham and cheese sandwich, I can...
Loretta (34:00)
the important stuff. Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:02)
And if I accidentally
offend somebody with my French I just... because I will stumble through until I get to the point where it's like... just can't do anymore. Anymore! It's like, can we please speak English? And the number of times that... thinking about it now and particularly on that trip was... thank god she's going to stop butchering our language.
Loretta (34:24)
you
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:26)
But see, that's a memory I have to hold on to. And the same with that her big piece of advice when it came to jobs or to doing anything was get the job first and then figure out how you're gonna do it.
Loretta (34:28)
⁓ that is so special.
I really like your mom. What was her name?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:45)
Yeah,
she was pretty cool.
Loretta (34:46)
Totally. What was your mom's name?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:48)
And
my mom's name was Judith.
Loretta (34:52)
I love that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:54)
And her middle name was Anne, which means grace.
Loretta (34:54)
Hmm. Judith Ann.
perfect. Very, very perfect. Huh.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:59)
Yeah.
Yeah. And I suppose I went to England on a working holiday when I was 30 because she encouraged me to, she helped me fill in the paperwork because I was at the, if I don't do it now, I'm never going to. And that whole, if I wait for somebody to do it with me, that somebody might never show up. mean, I was 35 when I got married and I had, I, yeah.
Loretta (35:13)
Yeah, yeah.
Yes. Right. ⁓ Yep. Yep. So you had to do some stuff.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:27)
I'd travelled, I'd lived in the UK and Canada. I worked in two of the top 100 spas in the world. I did all of that before I got married and had kids and even when I met my husband I was at that... I was 34 and I was really happy with my life. Yes, I'd always wanted to have children but I was at that... if it happens for me, yay. If it doesn't, I'm okay with that because I actually quite like my life.
Loretta (35:54)
Yep, yep, yep. That's living. That's living when you can be acceptance of where you're at and be happy and there you go. Yeah, for sure.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:57)
Yeah.
And I
think that's how we need to live our lives is the... And I know why I wasn't afraid to go and do those things was because I did have a mum who encouraged me to do those, but it was the... I knew.
Loretta (36:09)
Hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:21)
felt flat on my face. She would pick me up, dust me off and say, go do something else stupid. And that was, that was okay. And I'm trying to have that be what I, I give my children too is the don't be afraid to try it. What's the worst that's going to happen? Failing is not a bad thing.
Loretta (36:25)
I love it.
Yes.
No, no, it's so important. There was somebody and I will never think of who the person was that said they had come home and every day for dinner at the dinner table, they had to tell their dad what they failed at. And they like celebrated failure because when you fail, it means you're going further than what you think you can go. And that's a good measure of it. And to just not be it's like, okay, didn't failings not a negative. It's part of life. And I mean,
fail forward every single time. like there's no real, I don't know, failure has such a negative connotation. like just gets a bad rap, but good for you for teaching your kids that too. It's like that's so important. It's not a, it's the only way we learn. feel like you can't grow if you don't do things that you, you know, you don't know how or that you fail at or failing again, such a bad word, but you just think like a two-year-old child or no, be a one-year-old child.
I think when they're one, they're starting to learn how to walk. How many times they get up, get up, get up, get up, get up, get up. Like they don't.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:40)
It's not so much that
they learn to walk, it's how they learn to not fall down.
Loretta (37:45)
Yes, yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:47)
And
my big thing, and my husband jokes I am a resilience coach, that is what I do in my other life, life knocks us down. And sometimes it knocks us down hard. But we have that ability to get back up. And as long as we get back up just one more time, then life knocks us down, then we're winning.
Loretta (38:03)
Yes.
Yep, yep, absolutely, absolutely. And I'm sure you found this too, even in your online space and in your business and like I'm finding this now too. I had said this to a coach quite a while ago. I said, you know, I'm not worried about doing good or doing bad. I just know I'm not going to quit until I get somewhere. She said, where's somewhere? And I said, you know, I don't know yet, but I'm not quitting until I get there. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (38:35)
Yeah.
Loretta (38:36)
But you know, get up spirit, get up spirit, get up spirit. You start looking at everything as not as being a failure, but as a lesson in learning. Okay. You know, you look how far you are with your podcasting. My goodness. You have, you know, you're doing fantastic. So.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (38:51)
Yeah,
and I'm loving it and it just started. It was a random idea that popped into my head after, and I've shared it before on the podcast, but it's, I was hearing so many similar stories of experiences that people were going through and the common thread was that they felt alone. And my first thought was, well, if they're telling me, and,
Loretta (39:11)
Yeah. Yeah.
They're telling
someone, yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:18)
Lots of
people are telling me the same thing. They're not alone. And we're not supposed to do life alone. We're built for community. We're built for connection.
Loretta (39:22)
Right.
Yes. Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:31)
And we go so much further when we all get in and help each other and carry each other's burdens. Like, it's not taking it off somebody and doing all the work for them, it's walking alongside them and helping them. And when we have those conversations, particularly the tough ones that we go, I really don't want to do that, I don't want to go there. Sometimes it's going there that brings you that gift of,
Loretta (39:44)
Yeah.
Yeah. ⁓
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:56)
I'm not alone or somebody else has had that experience or even just that it's okay to talk about it. It doesn't make it bigger and scarier in some ways. Talking about it is what tames the dragon. ⁓ Yes!
Loretta (39:58)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep, absolutely. You're a beautiful dragon.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:17)
So, hey.
I think that that's a really good space for us to round up. Because I think today's conversation has shown that love and loss are two sides of the same coin.
It said that grief is just love with nowhere left to go. Maybe having those conversations before then gives it somewhere to go.
Loretta (40:37)
Yes.
Yes, oh yes Sarah, absolutely. So important, so important. I don't think you can talk about it enough until your comfort level is there and I think when you can look at yourself and say, if I had, a friend of mine asked this question not so long ago, if I had, if you had 24 hours to live, what would you do? And I said, you know, I think I'd go spend some time with my family. You know, nothing big, nothing audacious, but.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:47)
helps it to carry on.
Loretta (41:13)
If you're doing all the things along the way, then you stay connected in that way. And that's the, I think that's the ultimate outcome is live like you would die tomorrow. Hug, and kiss and tell those people you love them every single time. Cause it really could be the last time. It really could truly, we never think it's never going to be us, but what if it is, why take that chance when a simple little extra gesture.
can solve it. I love it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:41)
So if you're listening and you're in that place where you're uncertain, where you're avoiding it, you've heard us both say it, just have the conversation. You don't have to have all of the answers. Sometimes the answers will come through that conversation. So Loretta, thank you so much for joining me today and for all of the grace, compassion and wisdom you bring to...
Loretta (42:03)
Thank you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (42:10)
to this work and to this really hard topic and for helping families find peace in the places that we sometimes fear to look.
Loretta (42:21)
Well, I appreciate you so much, Sarah, and I loved hearing about your experience as well. And I appreciate you having me on and letting me share.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (42:30)
So I'm Sarah Jordan Ross and this has been Tabri Talk. Until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other and remember, your story matters. Because when one person finds the courage to talk about the hard stuff, we all begin to heal. Bye for now.