What happens when the life that once fit… doesn’t anymore? In this reflective and empowering conversation, Sarah sits down with midlife fitness expert Heike Yates to explore the quiet shifts that come with identity, aging, and change. This episode is a powerful reminder that you don’t need to reinvent yourself—you just need to reconnect with who you are now.
Heike Yates is a Midlife Fitness Expert, author, and creator of the SPARK Framework. She helps midlife women navigate seasons when what used to work no longer fits and routines feel harder to follow than they used to.
With over 35 years of experience in fitness, nutrition, and mindset coaching, Heike supports women who feel stuck in the gap between knowing what matters and actually following through. Her approach is practical, compassionate, and designed for real life — not ideal days.
She is the host of the Pursue Your Spark Podcast and award-winning author of Pursue Your Spark, where she blends science and lived experience to help women rebuild self-trust and move forward with steady steps, without guilt, extremes, or starting over.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:00) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast that breaks the silence, fosters hope and talks about the tough stuff so you never feel alone. If you're new here, I'm your host, Sarah. I'm a wife, a mum of three amazing boys and a wellness coach, therapist. I've spent 25 years holding space for real honest conversations about life, death and everything in between.
And today's conversation, while it's a quieter one, but it's no less powerful, we're talking about those moments in life where things don't fall apart all at once. They shift slowly, almost quietly. And before we know it, something that once fit really well doesn't anymore. And that sense of disconnection, of questioning, who are we now? Especially in midlife.
when so much of our identity is tied to the roles that we've carried over the years. And joining me for this conversation is Haka Yates. Haka is a midlife fitness expert with over 35 years in the health and wellness space. She's also the author of Pursue Your Spark, a book that explores what it means to go beyond perfectionism and comparison and reconnect with who you are now.
What stood out to me most in Heike's story wasn't the work itself, but the way she described her own experience, not as a breaking point, but as a slow unraveling. That moment where the identity you've carried for so long doesn't quite fit anymore. And you're left figuring out what comes next. Heike, welcome to Taboo Talk. I'm really glad to have you here.
Heike Yates (01:53)
Sarah, it is my pleasure. can't wait for our conversation.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (01:58)
So, to get started, when you look back on that time in your life, what's something about that transition that people don't really see but you wish they understood?
Heike Yates (02:14)
think I had several of those moments along the way. I'm going to be 65 next week. And I feel that every 10 years I had a moment, an aha moment, where I was in tune with what something needed to change and something needed to evolve in one way or another. And I think a lot of people just feel this quiet grumbling in their stomach.
They're getting a little unhappy as they go through life and it's not exactly where they want to be. I think one of the things that I felt, a big one was when I got divorced. That was a big moment. ⁓ But I feel that also when I started coming from the high intensity workouts that I used to do that I trusted that
were my, so to say, my bread and butter. Or like, I never thought in a million years that I would be doing what I do now, or even through those almost now 40 years as a coach, but that it was push, push, push harder. More is better. ⁓ I can navigate menopause as long as I just really run really, really hard. ⁓ I can manage weight gain.
If I just do more strength training or more exercise, but everything was pushing through harder. And until it wasn't until I was like, you know, I'm just so done with this. And fortunately I came across Pilates towards the tail end of that moment that where I was like, you know, something has to give, cause this is no longer fun for me. It was fun. And I'm by nature very competitive.
So I lost that competitive venue. And then I said, who am I competing against? Or four.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:15)
Yeah. Yeah, that, why am I doing this? It's not fun anymore.
Heike Yates (04:22)
Yeah. He knows like you go into and you go, mean, it literally, it excelled. As soon as I learned how to be a strength training coach in all my careers, I was like, and I keep saying that over and over, my friend Rhonda is the one who is to, to takes responsibility for that. became a bodybuilder, but she's like, wouldn't it be great Haike if we teach, learn how to get people really big muscles. And I was like,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:42)
Yeah.
Heike Yates (04:50)
sure, sign me up, this is great. But back then I was a new trainer and I didn't think that women would not want to have big, giganormous muscles. It was just a great idea. And that led to in, ⁓ what else is out there that's hard? What else is out there where I can push myself and excel in certain disciplines too? But as it kept changing, it's almost felt like, this was hard.
But that's not hard enough. Let me do a tough mutter. this is even harder. my God, this is really great. And I prided myself in surviving those hard times.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:30)
Yep. So that's it. Getting through those hard experiences is what, what helps us to grow. But they came, there would have come a point where your body went, I can't do this anymore. You want to take us through what that, that realization that what had always worked wasn't working anymore. And your body was going, nah.
Heike Yates (05:48)
Yeah, so.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:59)
I'm not doing this.
Heike Yates (06:01)
And you know, the first time it's, we all listen more or less to our bodies. And I think most of us actually less. The body gives us signals to tell us, hey, you know, it's time to, to step back and you go, no, no, no, I'm not ready yet. Not me. I can do more. And there was one moment. And I think that's a slightly embarrassing, but also I think of fun story.
I was in the middle of all this intensity training, of all this, you know, doing Ironman and running long distance, like ultra marathons. And this new thing came along, Pilates. And I was like, what is that? New thing, air quotes, people. It's been around for, it's not that new, but it was not on my horizon, right? Because I was looking for these intense, hard.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:51)
It's not that new.
Heike Yates (06:59)
challenging, ooh, give it all workout. So that was not on my horizon. So I went to a fitness conference and they offered Pilates classes. And I was like, I got nothing signed up on that slot. I'll just go and check out that class. So I go to this class and my perception, people are lying around on the floor and they're all doing things. And it's always about inhale and exhale and do this and roll up and roll down.
And I'm like, damn, when does it actually start with a workout? When are we going to actually do something that's hard? Cause I want to do hard things. The next, the next thing I know, I wake up in the instructor stance over me, looks down at me and she said, Oh, you had a good workout. You actually fell asleep today. I was so embarrassed.
embarrassed and I was like, no, no, it was a great class. I had no recollection of what I actually did, but it was my body saying, hey, you need a break. You don't need to have this because all the other classes were bootcamping, high intensity interval and you name it, rope slamming and all kinds of stuff like this. And this was just something that was actually good for my body. And I didn't realize it at this point that my body said, hey, go lie down.
Rest, honor how your body feels until like two years later when my right knee started really hurting. And I kept, it was hurting, but not so bad that I couldn't limp around and pretend everything was fine until it wasn't. the knee's this big swollen, it's a big melon, it's still fine, it's great. I said I rested.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:41)
Yes, because we do that.
Heike Yates (08:50)
It will be great tomorrow." And then it wasn't great. And it was in the middle of a 60 mile run where I, my knee was hurting so bad. I could have cried those 60 miles. And I think back then I didn't even do the 60. I did maybe 30 and then just said, I call it quits, called my husband, said, pick me up. I cannot do this anymore. And I quit running for a couple of years.
I just said, this is not for me. And not that I really picked up more running after that, but that opened the door for Pilates. That's when I said, okay, I can't do this anymore. It's just not smart. mean, here I am, the coach, the expert, and what do I do? I do everything I tell my clients not to do.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:40)
Yep, because that never happens. We always follow our own advice.
Heike Yates (09:43)
You
Right? And so then I'm... Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:48)
Or if it was anybody
else, you'd know exactly what to tell them to do. But because it's you, it's like your brain switches off and goes, no, I don't know what to do. Or it's the, know exactly what to do, but you just don't want to do it.
Heike Yates (09:54)
Yep. Yep.
Yep. No, no, no, I can't do that because it's also an identity shift. So when, when you think about this, that you're identifying with at this point, ⁓ despite all the other spots, I identified as a runner. I was a runner. Who am I when I'm not running anymore? I'm a like a nobody in my mind, because that was my identity. That was my thing. And it was not.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:09)
Mmm.
Heike Yates (10:32)
being a mom, being a grandma, being a wife, I was the runner. But that didn't work anymore. So now what? And that's when I said, okay, I need to do something different. And it took me about a year to wrap my head around the concept of grieving that I was no longer a runner. Fortunately, Pilates had already found its place with me and I was working on...
on my knee and my strength and my core strength and all the more gentler workouts. ⁓ letting go of that one role was really difficult.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (11:12)
because that was how you saw yourself. One of the things I love about Pilates is that it was actually developed by a dancer to rehab from an injury. So it was listening to those signals that the body was giving and finding that.
Heike Yates (11:30)
May I correct
you? Pilates was not developed by a dancer. Joseph Pilates invented the Pilates method back in Germany, but he was not a dancer. He was an engineer and all those pieces of equipment that you see on the interwebs, all of these pieces he built himself because he was an engineer. He practiced yoga because he was an asthmatic.
He included his, in his work, martial arts style workouts and a boxing style workout. So you find that in his work. And he modeled his work after animals. So you find a lot of things like the elephant, the crab in his work. And he refined it when he came to New York in the 40s, mid 40s.
right after World War II with his wife Clara. And they both opened up a studio in New York City where they worked with injured dancers because Joseph developed the reputation that he could fix people. And that's how the dance community came into ⁓ enjoying the Pilates work and many of the dancers carried forward his work like the great Balanchine and others.
that are out there.
Thank you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:00)
That's where that dance connection came in. Because when I first learned about Pilates, like 30 years ago, the big thing was he developed it to help dancers rehab.
Heike Yates (13:15)
Yep, yep. And you can see I've come a soak across several of the people that actually trained directly with him as kids, basically. And their stories are just so interesting to hear how it was back then in the Pilates studio in New York City. you know, the person that really worked in rehab was his wife, Claire, who was a nurse. He only wanted to be around the healthy and the fit ones. That's how the story goes.
That's, I don't know, I wasn't there. Yeah. And so, and it's, it's, it's a powerful workout as you experience. And it's so kind on the body. And what I love about Pilates is that it connects the mind and body. Many people think of exercise and mindfulness with yoga, but I find when you're really paying attention to your breath and the movement,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:46)
that we like to work on.
Heike Yates (14:11)
And I always say you breathe with every movement and every movement has a breath. That you never hold your breath. You never just go like kamikaze pilates where you do things really fast, which has become very popular in the last couple of years. But when you really do controlled, slow movements, doesn't mean you fall asleep because some people say, well, we don't want to the old people pilates. No, you're moving.
And you have springs that give resistance, which is also amazing for bone densities. So we're looking at another positive part of it. It is an incredible workout that challenges the individual to what they can do. It's not just everybody has to do the same thing. ⁓ And I just love it. I love it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (14:56)
Yeah.
and then actually listening to your body and to where you're at in that moment.
Heike Yates (15:04)
And it's, you know, what I find is when I coach my clients, whether it's virtually in classes or in my studio one-on-one, once we start the breath, once we start aligning ourselves, people's minds go crazy. They let go of all kinds of things. People start crying on the reformer or the Cadillac, wherever they are.
because suddenly the emotion lets go. And then they talk about what has happened and why they feel this way. And also really aligning their body for somebody who is in pain. The greatest joy is that you get out of pain because you finally learn to understand what you need to do in order to get out of pain or at least manage pain through the movement that's precision and slow and controlled and... ⁓
I've been coaching for over 20 years now and I, everybody that comes my way is doing Pilates one way or another.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:06)
Because you found that thing that works and you went, you had previously identified as a runner and then you had to shift from that and you touched briefly on the grief of that. Do want to take us through that time a little bit more of you couldn't do what you had done and then the finding that new identity?
Heike Yates (16:10)
Yep.
Yeah.
So when you think about it is we all, I always say we are identifying in our lives, especially as women. ⁓ Men don't talk about it as much, but I know men must go through the same or similar transition. You were raised as the maiden. As a maiden, you have a certain job and a certain responsibility. Then you become the mother. And as a mother, you again change your responsibilities in how you care for people, who comes first.
And then you become the ⁓ grandmother basically, and you have a completely different set of skills. So I'm in the face of the mother. I am like here, I'm nurturing my children. I'm nurturing my grandkids and I'm nurturing my body with all those hard workouts. And then as it happens, you're suddenly going, okay, I'm still.
grandma, a wife, a business owner, a podcaster. But what, what happened to my runner? What is it? It's, it's profound grief that I had to go through. I tried for months to find anything on this planet. And I made some reels about it to figure out how I can mitigate this. my doctor said here, full knee replacement.
And I just stood there and I said, no, we're not doing this. He said, your knee is so bad. I would basically schedule your knee replacement right now. And, and I guess as my story already tells, I'm not going to take it lying down. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm a fighter. We're going to fight this. And so for three years, I've been fighting, getting the knee replacement. I'm getting closer to it because my knee is still niggling, but I still, no matter how you look at it.
Even if I would have gotten or will get the knee replacement, I cannot do long distance running. I can run down the trail or after my grandkids. That's not a problem. But not for a longer distance. And to see that you have no choice, there's no way out of this misery other than to give in. And feeling that you will become suddenly losing that identity as a runner that you feel a little bit.
worthless, you feel like, wants to hang out with me now? I'm like, my running community, they're like, ⁓ just join us on the trail. And I'm like, yeah, you guys zoom off and I walk behind you and I never see you again. never talk to you again. And, and so you lose also that connection to that community that you've developed, which another, it's another grieving point. And then my husband is still a runner and I'm like, I hate you. go running and I can't.
And you start whining and feeling sorry for yourself. But at some point, and it took me a year, I had to say, it's okay. You can still move. You're not in a wheelchair. You're not homebound. Change your strategy. And I was looking for something else to take its place, which if anybody's listening who's a runner, you know the runner high is just.
to nothing like it. Swimming doesn't do it. Biking can't do it. But I said, all right, I'm just going to go hike real hard. Let's see. But even then, my knee, when it's really steep hikes, my knee tells me, I'm not ready for this hike. You need to back down more or get that knee replacement. I'm still not ready for that. But afterwards, you still shouldn't run on that knee to preserve the joint.
Hiking is different, but still getting around that and finding something that brings you equal joy was my goal. What can I do other? And I love to be outside. So it had to be something outside. And biking is my next best thing. I love to bike. I'm not a gutsy biker like some people. I'm like, you know, a little slower there, but.
It gives me like a really good feeling of, oh my God, look at me, I'm zooming along. This is really great until that doesn't go anymore, but we're not at this point. And, know, at one point I talked to our tri friends and they're like, well, you can still do races. You can still do triathlons, just to shorter distances and just walk the running distance. And at first my husband said, boy, were you whining. I was like,
I can't do this. I can't, I can't just walk it. You know, I do a good swim and a good bike. And then I'm walking. What kind of thing is that? And he said, my God. And I said, you're right. Stop whining. It's enough. I quit the wine, get moving on. You've, you've, you've grieved enough. It's been a year. Let's get on with it. And that's then when I really decided that this is, I'm, and you know, I don't look at it either as
Sarah Jordan-Ross (21:38)
Quit the whining.
Heike Yates (21:53)
Oh, I used to be an ultra marathon runner. Back in the day, I'm not looking at it this way. That was like, man, I got a medal. I did a full Ironman. It was amazing. But I'm not longing back to, which I feel a lot of people do. They long to be back there in that feeling. And that had to go with the grief. Get it out the door. We don't need it anymore.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:20)
You've got to let it go or it's going to eat you up. And that's how grief for anything is like that. It's not so much that the grief gets less, but that you grow around it or you find different things to fill that space for whatever it is that's no longer in your life, whether that's running or a career or a person.
Heike Yates (22:37)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (22:50)
you grow around that grief because it's not one of those things that is linear and looks the same for every person. So we've all got to find our way to work through it and then get on with it.
Heike Yates (23:09)
Yeah, because I see some people that are so grief-stricken and can't find their way out anymore. And I think it might become the new you then that you're just grief-stricken and that you are so into that, that there's just no way out, that you can function well for yourself and create a future for yourself and pursue your spark.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:34)
And that's it, we all have that spark and that thing we're supposed to do or that thing that lights us up. And I think it changes over time too. Yeah, there's those things that will always bring joy, but then there's different things at different stages.
Heike Yates (23:41)
Yeah.
Yep, absolutely. know, when I look at it now, it's like, and I know the crone was the last stage. I couldn't think of the name after the mother, the crone. And I mean, I'm 65 soon. I don't feel like a crone just yet. So me, to me, Sarah, midlife is between 40 and 80. That's my midlife. And the reason why I think that we're, we're so much more sparky as we get older. So many of us women, number one, live longer, healthier lives.
And number two, we have that curiosity after we raise our children, maybe go in retirement. There's more afterwards. And it's, you know, if you're the person who loves tending to the grandkids, more power to you. I need more than that. I want to keep my podcast going and all kinds of wonderful things that excite me in the future.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:50)
And there can be lots of big changes as we get older too and different things will light us up. similar to you, I was a massage therapist for 25 years. I gave up my own clinic when my son was diagnosed with pediatric MS and it was one of those, I can't be in the clinic doing six massages a day and giving my clients what they
need and be the mum that my son needed me to be. And so I made that transition but for such a long time was like I'm a massage therapist. Okay if I'm not doing that who am I? What am I? And then one day this random idea of starting a podcast popped into my head and now I've got another crit that I get to say what I do is way too much fun to call it a job.
Heike Yates (25:51)
It's true. you find you meet so many fun people. That's what I always like about it, too. From around the world as we you're in Australia, I'm here in Maryland in the United States, and I'm originally from Germany. So it's just awesome.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:51)
Sorry. But it was.
time zones now that somebody can say a time in a particular zone and I'll go, yep, I can do that or no, I'm asleep, sorry.
Heike Yates (26:19)
Very true, because when we were trying to find a spot for the two of us, I was like, OK, let's see, where is she?
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:25)
At the moment, because I still have young children, my youngest is nine, my oldest is 13. So my working hours I try to, while they're off at school doing their thing, I get to do my thing.
But because I didn't like the late nights and the weekends and all that sort of stuff. Well, I don't need to do that anymore. So I'm not going to.
Heike Yates (26:52)
In-
You know, I also like you. mean, I haven't given up my in-person practice because I just love it, but I have reduced hours and I don't work evenings at all. I do a couple of earlier mornings, but not a lot. And weekends have been off the table for years. I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. I need time with my husband, my family and for myself too. And I mean, my kids...
My son lives in Amsterdam. My daughter lives here in Baltimore, an hour away from here. And they're both in their mid thirties, give and take. And my grandbabies also live in Amsterdam. So I don't see them that often, but if I want to, I'm like, okay, we're closing shop. We're going to Amsterdam.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:42)
Yeah and you can do that because you've created that life that that lets you do that. Now I'd like to talk a little bit about your book. I think because I think our conversation is heading towards the what are those things that light you up? What is that spark? So tell us about your book.
Heike Yates (28:04)
my book, here we go. My book, Pursue Your Spark. Such a beautiful book, I have to say. my God, no. I mean, I never thought that I would, no, that's not true. I thought I wanted to write a book, but I didn't know what my book was about. And I didn't want it to be a fitness and nutrition book, exercise book, but it's definitely supported by all of those elements. Because what I found was,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:10)
Yes. Not that you're biased or anything.
Heike Yates (28:32)
that people that come to us, and you notice from massage as well, people wanna talk, they wanna tell us their problems, they wanna tell us, ask us for advice, and we are not therapists, but we, I mean, I have an opinion for about everything, I'm sure you do too. And so writing a book was a venture, but the reason I say that midlife is so long for me, or that long, is the book was,
initiated or the idea came from my client who just turned 80 last year. And that she's the caretaker of her husband and he's eating up more and more of her time and she can't go to her choir singing group because she feels guilty and she has all these like we all experience we're becoming caregivers to our either our children or our parents or a mix of that of those. And she said
my daughter invited me to come and visit for the weekend. We found a family member to take care of dad and I just go fly up and I'll spend the weekend with her. And I was like, great idea, no worries, no schedule, just the two of you. And so she comes back from the trip and is beaming. I was like, what kind of a weekend did you have? And she's like, my God, it was the best. And I said, tell me, tell me.
And so she said, we had lunch, we went shopping, I slept in, I got to read a book, and we had really great just mother-daughter talks. It was so amazing. And she said, I feel like myself again. Up at this point, I had thought when somebody said, I feel like myself again, they're referring to their younger selves in their 20s and 30s. And this was the first time I really understood what she meant. It's the now.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:22)
Mm-hmm.
Heike Yates (30:27)
at the age I am, at 80, and I said, oh my God, you just gave me my book. Because I believe that not only is writing a book a really hard venture, but I want so many more women to understand that they need to stand up for themselves. They need to speak up for what they want. They need to identify what it is they want in each age group.
One of the things, this is the answer to your question, that's really important to me is having freedom. Heike likes freedom, freedom to travel, freedom to speak her mind, freedom to explore and be curious about her life, including travel. I love to travel. We just came back from Colombia for my pre-birthday trip, because every year we're going somewhere I have not been. And this year was Colombia for 10 days. It was amazing.
And I feel that we can stay as we get older, healthy, embodying mind, just maybe different than we thought. Like I didn't understand what that was. I want to feel like myself again. And I think many women don't understand either what that means for them, that they're not stuck, that they're not, and I talk about this in the book, that they're not in a gap. They're in between space where they are not, can't dig themselves out. And then their gap
of whatever it is, whether it's the exercise or the mindset or the nutrition gap, they dig themselves out before it becomes a trap where we get just totally buried under and can't find our way out. Hence with a grief story, right? So I'm buried in my own, I made my own trap, I made my own hole. And I think we have so much potential to be curious, setting boundaries and...
And ⁓ I'm all about this and I love to be outdoors aside from that. So that's, these are all a lot of sparks that light me up when, when it comes to that. And I'm so here to support all the women and some men as well, ⁓ with their journey to pursue their spark, whatever the spark is. there's, and your spark and you guys think, Hike is talking about all these complicated, long races. It could be as simple as wanting to learn how to knit.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (32:25)
Yeah.
Heike Yates (32:50)
as simple as that. That's a spark. It could be as simple as learning a new recipe.
little, it doesn't have to be anything profound, but something that takes you to the next step for of happiness and fulfillment.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:12)
And sometimes when you spent so long looking after everybody else or doing all of the things, you get to a point where it's like, yeah, but I don't know what it is. I wanted to, and that's okay. You don't have to have all the answers. The fun is in finding out what it is in being able to try those new things. I love that. So I love that you said middle age goes for a really long time.
Heike Yates (33:34)
And I feel, and I.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:41)
That fits into something that my family has said for a long time. My mum had this rule. Anyone with a birth date after 1940 is not allowed to themselves old in my house. My mum was born in January 41. So anyone older than her wasn't allowed to call themselves old. Now, my kids, if anyone, the, geez, I feel old or they're complaining about that. You're not old until you're 80.
Heike Yates (33:54)
I love it.
I
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:10)
Sorry. ⁓
Heike Yates (34:10)
Yeah, because I think,
you know, when we're talking about the middle age, the midlife, everybody thinks 50, that's the number. I'm like, who said because is it because we're thinking we're only living we're living to 100? Well, I mean, some people live beyond that and some people die sooner. But who says that that menopause is the midlife? I like now I'm going to change that. This is it. We're fluid here. Depends on, you know, again.
Everybody ages differently. Some people have a much harder time than others. And you got to honor that too. But you know, one of my clients just turned 100 in February, so he's doing Pilates.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (34:51)
Bye.
grandfather was still gardening right up until just before he passed and he was 94 when when he passed. yeah, they built him tough back then.
Heike Yates (35:09)
Well, those people also went through a lot. think we tend to sometimes forget there's World Wars, there's depression, there's all kinds of things that we fortunately, hopefully will never experience. ⁓ But I think we can learn from all these people so much more. And I learned that I could write a book with a completely different content than I thought.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:38)
Yes, sometimes what we think we're going to do and what we end up doing are completely different things. And that's sometimes the adventure of life is that it doesn't always turn out exactly how you think it's going to be. And it's finding that joy.
Heike Yates (35:45)
Yep.
And I
think that's the amazing part. That's where curiosity kicks in. And I talk about this extensively in the book, that it's not the destination that matters, but the journey we go through and the experiences we have along the way. And if we stay curious and say, well, that didn't quite work out, but guess what I found? I like this way better. A totally different direction may just appear to you because of
how you work on it, how you experience it. And that is the beauty of a fulfilled and joyful life, these experiences and not whether or not you get to the end goal because a lot of people think too, now I reached this goal, now what? I'm done. We oftentimes see this in dieting. ⁓ I just lost 20 pounds. Now what? The journey continues with a healthy lifestyle.
And that's how I think it's always evolving. And that's why I feel every 10 years I evolve to something different, something, I don't know what it's gonna be for my seventies, but let's see what happens.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:05)
Yeah. I'm sure it will bring lots of exciting things.
Heike Yates (37:10)
I think so too.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:12)
Yeah, yeah, think, like speaking purely for myself, life's gotten better as I've older. In some ways, I'm, I know who I am more, I'm more comfortable in, in my own skin. And there's something that a lot of when we hit perimenopause or that mid, midlife period, there's that pressure to
to fix things or to change things and reinvent who we are and what we're doing. We put so much pressure on ourselves to be a certain way, do a certain thing. What do think we're getting wrong with that? I think it's that we're putting that pressure on ourselves instead of embracing the adventure that it could be.
Heike Yates (38:07)
It's the reinvention part I don't like. To me, if you have to reinvent yourself, that means everything you've done up until this point was not good enough. Didn't matter. It didn't count. It was wrong. So if you do not reinvent yourself, but you just reset, you can choose whatever that is and still bring
all those lived experiences with you that are so valuable. Because if I need to reinvent myself, who the heck am I then? And why is everything before that not good enough? I think reinventing is my vocabulary has no existence. not reinventing. We're resetting. Let's reset.
And tweak things here, tweaks things. You know, we're getting older, we need to eat slightly different. We need to exercise slightly different. As we found out in my story, I'm low impact workouts, way better for this woman over here. ⁓ And it still is good, but I need to recalibrate and say, okay, I'm still hiking. I do not want that knee replacement.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:08)
Yeah.
Heike Yates (39:23)
but I'm hiking a little slower so it doesn't hurt as much or at all when I'm done with my workout. I'm paying more attention to what I eat. Is my diet full of the right nutrients? Am I pushing people away that stress me out? ⁓ I barely listen to the news because it's really stressing me out. ⁓ where's my mindset? What do I want to fill my brain with?
with happy thoughts, with productive thoughts, with interesting facts and conversations. you know, just recently as another ⁓ reset, I became an usher. So here in Washington, D.C., we have the Shakespeare Theater and a lot of other theaters. But my friend is being an usher at the Shakespeare Theater. And I said, how did you get into that job? And she said, well, you just apply and then you sign up for shifts. I'm like, OK, give me this link. I want to try this out. And so
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:22)
Okay.
Heike Yates (40:22)
I go
once a month to one of the Shakespeare theaters, sign up for one of the performances, and then I show people to the seats or I check people in, whatever my job is. ⁓ And we have to be there like way early, but it's totally okay. I love it. my God, I love it. And you see new people and everybody comes in is excited. And then when the show begins, you can see ⁓ an amazing performance for free because I'm working one of the shifts that need to be done.
And just the last week I did a show and this woman comes up and she says, you know, I did this job when I was 15 and we actually got to wear uniforms. She's like, wow, this is so great. That was like, awesome. I'm glad I'm starting when I'm 65.
But it was another one of, no, they're too cheap now, they're too expensive. They give us a little name tags that says Usher on it. But that was another one of, like, you know, leave the door open. If something, opportunity comes across, try it out. My husband says, I'm not doing this. I'm like, great, it's my thing now. I'm doing it just for me. And I'm meeting the other Ushers and next weekend I have another performance. So I'm super excited about it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:14)
Do you have to wear a uniform?
It's finding those new things that light you up. But if someone's listening right now and they're in that in-betweeny space, things don't quite fit anymore, but they haven't figured out what's next. What's one thing you would want them to know or something that you wish you'd understood maybe a little bit earlier in the process?
Heike Yates (42:09)
would say that it can take a long time for you to figure out what it is. Don't assume that you're sitting down now and saying, huh, I'm going to change this. I'm going to do something different. And then you sit there and you twiddle your thumbs and nothing comes to mind. And then you ask your girlfriend and you go, I don't do that. And then you keep sitting there. It takes a while. So don't be disappointed if nothing comes to you. It's just, you know, open up your mind and see what's around you.
And just like the usher came across, I had not thought that actively looked for it. And then I said, ⁓ that could be fun to try. And if I do it once, then I don't have to do it again if I don't like it. But keep an open mind when it comes to these things and just let them simmer on you. But once you know something is in between and you're like, ⁓ man, start really.
putting out your feelers and antennas and see what other people are doing. I think that's the easiest way to go. Or when you read about it, you're like, ⁓ maybe I volunteer at a race. I've never done that before.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:22)
Yeah, find those different things because there's opportunities everywhere to try new things and do new things. you don't have to, if you decide, I'm going to try that. If it's not for you, go try something else. don't go shopping for a new outfit and take the first thing that you put on because it doesn't always work. Sometimes it does, but...
Heike Yates (43:39)
Yep. Isn't it?
You I like the comparison that my daughter-in-law does with our grandkids. You have to at least try a bite. If you don't like it, it's okay, but you have to least try one bite and see you may just like it. I love that.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:57)
Yeah.
Yes, and it works well with lots of things, not just getting small children to eat their vegetables.
Heike Yates (44:15)
Hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (44:21)
Is there anything else that you'd really like to share with people listening today?
Heike Yates (44:29)
After you listen to this episode, I want you to really sit still for a moment and let that conversation we had today sink in. If you feel, because sometimes we don't know we're in that between space. Sometimes we just know we're kind of grumpy. It's, or we do the kind of sighing more often than we want. And I want you to really pay attention to that and sit back, take time for yourself.
and explore why that is. Why am I? Do people ask too much of me? Am I giving too much of myself? What I want you to know is one thing for sure. Stop dimming your light and pursue your spark. Instead of the go, yay, I love it. That's what I would say.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (45:28)
Thank you so much for sharing that and all your other amazing wisdom today. I think this is one of those conversations that a lot of people will see themselves in, whether it's they've found that spark of joy or they're in that.
And if you are in that space, you're not alone. Just remember that. And if you're in that sense of something shifting, you're outgrowing who you used to be, but you're not quite sure who you want to be now, take the time to figure it out.
If this conversation resonates with you and you're in that space, just remember that there's lots of people who've been there before.
like my wonderful guest today. And if you would like to connect with Haki more or learn more about her book, we'll have those details in the show notes for you. Or you can reach out to me and I'll be more than happy to connect you.
Thank you for listening, for being part of this space, for being open to finding that spark and pursuing that and for giving yourself time in those in-between spaces so then you can go fully into whatever it is that is next.
for So until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other and remember your story matters so share it because you never know when it's your story that's going to be what changes someone else's life. Bye for now.