We talk a lot about surviving—the illness, accident, crisis or experience that threatened to break us. But what happens afterwards, when the danger has passed yet some part of us still hasn't received the message that we're safe? Sarah sits down with Peter McLaughlin, leukemia survivor, former volunteer firefighter and EMT, hypnotherapist and spiritual root-cause coach, to explore mortality, fear, subconscious patterns, forgiveness and our capacity to change. It's a conversation about moving beyond survival and asking: What if the experience that knocked you down could also change the direction of your life?
A crisis may end physically while fear and old patterns remain. Peter's leukemia diagnosis forced him to confront his mortality and become willing to question the life he'd been living.
Peter compares life's challenges to ocean waves. The same wave can knock us over—or, with a different approach, we can learn to navigate it. We don't control everything that happens, but we can explore how we respond.
Peter was diagnosed with leukemia and Lyme disease on the same day while undergoing a physical to become a volunteer firefighter. He describes the diagnosis as the moment that made him willing to consider changing his beliefs, patterns and direction.
Peter's work focuses on what he calls the root cause. Rather than only looking at what's happening externally, he encourages people to become curious about the beliefs, emotions and patterns underneath it.
Peter's closing message is simple: as long as you have breath, you have the ability to change. Sarah and Peter explore forgiveness, compassion and learning to speak to ourselves with the kindness we'd extend to someone we love.
“The energy is the same. It's how we navigate the energy that really matters.”
— Peter McLaughlin
“As long as you have breath, you have the ability to change.”
— Peter McLaughlin
“Our thoughts have power, our words have power. Be careful how you use them.”
— Sarah Jordan-Ross
Sarah Jordan-Ross (00:00) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk, the podcast that breaks the silence, fosters hope, and talks about the tough stuff so you never feel alone. If you're new here, I'm your host, Sarah Jordan Ross. I'm a wellness coach, a speaker, and I believe our stories have the power to connect us in ways we often don't expect. Now we talk a lot about survival in our world now. We celebrate the person who beat the illness, got through the crisis, survived the accident.
Left the relationship or made it through whatever threatened to break them. But I'm interested in what happens after that. What happens when the danger's past? Everybody around you thinks you should be grateful and just getting on with your life. But there's some part of you that hasn't quite got the message that you're safe now. My guest today, Peter McLaughlin, comes to that question from several interesting directions.
He survived leukemia in two thousand and three, spent fifteen years as a volunteer firefighter and EMT, seeing people through some of the most frightening moments of their lives. That journey eventually led him into exploring the mind body connection and working with hypnosis and regression. Peter, welcome to Taboo Talk. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this conversation takes
us.
Peter McLaughlin (01:22)
I am too, Sarah. Thanks for having me.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (01:25)
Now I'm you're very welcome. I've begun every episode of this season with the same or very similar question. Now given everything you've experienced, I think you could take it in several different directions. But what is the thing that you've seen that now that you've seen it, you can't unsee it? And what does it make you want to do about it?
Peter McLaughlin (01:55)
Wow, that's a that's a fabulous question. I've never been asked that before. And there's several things I would say. I I guess I guess the one that's the most pertinent to the work that I do is that difference between a victim mentality and the opposite, which I would call a creator mentality. And this all that that door opened for me when a therapist at the height of my
Fear and upset after being diagnosed, which came totally out of the blue. And I was saying to her in a session, I said, I feel like there's a black cloud following me. And she said, What if the black cloud is actually a mirror? And there was something
Sarah Jordan-Ross (02:41)
Mm.
Peter McLaughlin (02:42)
about that comment, I'm still getting goosebumps on my on my arms right now, that really opened my mind to what I believe is the truth. And that is that we are creating our reality.
And you might say, well, why in God's name would you create leukemia and Lyme disease, by the way? I was diagnosed with both on the same day. Or why would you create a lot of the other horrible things that we have on this planet? And I think the answer to that question really is a spiritual answer. And that has to do with taking steps on a much larger ladder, a spiritual ladder. And the other way of looking at this is if you parachuted into this planet from another
From another galaxy or something, and you you landed where the US Navy SEALs are training, where they're going through their hell week, where they let them sleep like one hour in the whole week, and they're trying to break them. You would think that these were prisoners. You would never think that they all volunteered for this. And I think the same about all of us as souls on this planet, that we volunteered for this.
And we volunteered from a perspective that's arguably much wider and greater than the human perspective than you and I have right now inside of these bodies, looking out through these eyes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:06)
There's so much more that we can't see.
Peter McLaughlin (04:09)
yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:10)
Yeah.
And I think you're right. A lot of those experiences, particularly I think the hard ones, when you ask somebody on the other side of it, and we will we will get to talk about it, but it would be I wouldn't necessarily consciously choose that experience, but
Peter McLaughlin (04:28)
no.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:30)
if I could choose not to have it, that's not the choice I'd make either, because even horrible experiences, you can find something.
Good out of them, it depends on how you look at it, whether it's the this awful thing is happening to me,
Peter McLaughlin (04:49)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (04:51)
and you get stuck down, bogged down in in that in that victim mentality, or this is happening for me to show me something I need
Peter McLaughlin (05:02)
Yes. Exactly.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (05:04)
to know or to help me understand a deeper truth.
Peter McLaughlin (05:08)
Exactly. I was on a radio show three nights ago, and this man has been doing this for a really long time. And he's apparently interviewed all of the luminaries of of this world, you know, like the Deepak Chopra and the Joe Dispenza and the names like that. And he said, and I thought this was really interesting, he said, everyone in this space to a person.
Has an origin story that is something that we would at first blush say is horrible. It's like some kind of a terrible wake-up call. Something really bad happens. And that, in retrospect, looking backwards, is the door through which all of these people walked. And as soon as he said it, I burst out laughing because I thought, that's me too. I don't have, I don't have a name like theirs at this point, but.
I have the same kind of origin story. And it makes sense that there really is a reason for all of this. And it's how, it's how we deal with it. It's it's the same, it's like sometimes I think about the ocean, for example, and how powerful a wave is. And how a wave can can literally knock you down. It can tumble you around. It could probably drown you. Or that same energy, if you had a surfboard, you could, you could ride it.
The energy isn't is the same. It's how we navigate the energy that really matters.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (06:40)
Yeah. It's how we choose to to face that wave, whatever it is.
Peter McLaughlin (06:47)
Right. And you don't have to necessarily face it, you know, by putting your shoulder into it. You can, you can not only surf it, you can go under it. Cause that's the other thing anyone who's ever been in the water will tell you that if a big wave's coming toward you and you just go a a foot or two underneath it, it just harmlessly passes over the top of your head. And then you can pop up after it's gone, if it's gone by. And I think that there's a lot of power in that kind of metaphor for how we live our lives.
You know, are we trying to we are we running away? Are we just putting our shoulder down and letting it hit us? Or are we using this to surf it, like become some kind of a soul surfer and use the energy to our advantage, kind of like a martial artist would do.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:36)
Yeah. You don't have to let it knock you down. Or if it does knock you down
Peter McLaughlin (07:39)
N no,
you don't have to. You don't. And it's okay if it does, because we also have the ability to
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:45)
You'll get back up.
Peter McLaughlin (07:45)
get back up.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (07:48)
I remember once a little while ago, had our young son at the beach and like it might have even been one of his first experiences at the beach and he did get knocked over by a wave. But then he basically something that he said had me and his dad both had tumblewumba in our heads. Cause he just went, Yeah, I got knocked down, but I got back up again.
Peter McLaughlin (08:12)
Great.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:14)
ran straight back into the next wave to try and have that same thing happen because he actually enjoyed the the tumble.
Peter McLaughlin (08:23)
It's wonderful.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:25)
I don't know that he would have enjoyed it quite so much had he have gotten stuck there, but
Peter McLaughlin (08:30)
True. He has a sense
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:31)
Yeah.
Peter McLaughlin (08:32)
of adventure.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:33)
Yes. Yes, he might be the reason for a few of my grey hairs in years to come.
Peter McLaughlin (08:39)
you're kidding.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:45)
In a good way. Now you spent years as a firefighter and an
Peter McLaughlin (08:53)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:53)
EMT. So you knew what crisis looked like
from the other
Peter McLaughlin (08:57)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (08:58)
side.
Peter McLaughlin (08:58)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:00)
Then, as you mentioned, you were diagnosed with leukemia and Lyme disease on the same day.
Peter McLaughlin (09:07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:09)
So what changed for you? You were used to being that person who responded to emergencies and now you
Peter McLaughlin (09:14)
It
Sarah Jordan-Ross (09:15)
were in one.
Peter McLaughlin (09:16)
it was actually it was actually the other way around. So I was volunteering to be the firefighter. And one of the first steps after they do a background check is they have you do an extensive physical. And on the f on the first day, the doctor said to me, Wow, for your age, you're in really good shape. At the time I was 41, 23 years ago. And he said, Come back and give blood. So I came back, I gave blood.
And the next thing I knew, my phone was blowing up. And when I got a hold of somebody at the doctor's office, they in this in this kind of heightened, agitated voice, said, We think that you have both Lyme disease and a form of leukemia. So it was it and it's kind of ironic looking back on it that I was volunteering to rescue other people. But in a sense, I was rescued because I learned about this.
Probably much earlier than I would have if I had not done the you know, done the volunteer work.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:20)
It's amazing how that happens sometimes. That
Peter McLaughlin (10:22)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:23)
just what looks like a random thing is actually exactly the thing that that you need to to help you.
Peter McLaughlin (10:31)
Correct. Correct. And then the other way that doing that that that work in the fire department helped me was it helped to put everything in perspective.
You know, we we've all said multiple times that nothing is guaranteed, or we we've heard other people say it and we nod along. Yeah, nothing's guaranteed. But there's still a part of our mind that thinks we're gonna live forever, I'm convinced, right? That that there's something there's something in our programming, yeah. But
Sarah Jordan-Ross (10:54)
We're ten foot tall and simple. Yeah.
Peter McLaughlin (10:58)
being a firefighter EMT, you you're on scenes where people die. You know, they either die while you're there or they die before you before you arrive.
And they've been been gone for just a few minutes. Car accidents or something, or you know, house fire or something. And these are people of all ages. Could be a person with a medical issue. It could be in in this one case, two young, two young guys, 22 years old and 18 years old. And it really puts things in perspective. When you, when I was, you know, I was thinking after that incident, I was thinking, wow, five minutes before they impacted the tree, I was thinking about myself.
I wonder how, you know, how my last test is gonna be, and I wonder if I'm gonna live all this other stuff. And then I go to this scene five minutes later, and these two young guys that probably didn't have a healthcare issue at all were both gone. And that really puts things in perspective.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:03)
And a cancer experience by itself can do that because you start asking different questions.
Peter McLaughlin (12:09)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:10)
Like you said, before that, before you have an experience that teaches you that you're not superhuman, that
Peter McLaughlin (12:19)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:20)
you're not indestructible.
Then you have that experience that brings it home to you that you just might be a bit more fragile than you would like to admit. But puts things into perspective and it starts having you ask different questions. Now I've spend a little bit of time
with cancer through through my work. I was a trained oncology massage therapist.
Peter McLaughlin (12:54)
Mm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (12:55)
I also cared for my mum through a cancer journey. one of the things I remember was that I knew things I wished I didn't know.
But and we started looking at everything as you take every day because every day is special and you're not guaranteed that next one.
So what did leukemia make you question about your life that you hadn't previously? And I suppose also with your experience being an EMT and seeing people in those those situations. So you've you've faced those life and death questions more than
more than
Peter McLaughlin (13:49)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (13:50)
most.
Peter McLaughlin (13:51)
Yeah. And and you know, the other thing too is that at the time when I volunteered, I was working in New York City. And this was in the wake of nine eleven. So I was diagnosed in two thousand and three. And on on the day of nine eleven, I was in Manhattan and my office was on Wall Street, which was about a block and a half away from the Trade Center.
And at an earlier point in my career, I'd actually worked in the South Tower. And I was at Grand Central Station on my way on the subway, getting ready to hop on the subway. I'd just come off the commuter train and I was getting ready to get on the subway to take me down to Wall Street, a block and a half away from ground zero, when I saw two track workers talking to each other, and there was something about their body language that just didn't look right to me. I didn't know what they were saying. But my wife had also called me when I was on the commuter train and said,
I just wanted you to know this. A plane hit one of the towers. And I we both were just imagining like a little Cessna, a little private plane or something. And I was like, that's really weird. And I just kept going. But it was her phone call when I was at waiting to get on this subway that caught in the body language of these track workers that just caused me to say, you what, I'm gonna let that train go. And I walked over to them and I asked them what happened. So everything that we're talking about is happening.
In the immediate aftermath of 9-11. And that happened on a Tuesday. By the following Monday, we were back at work. And it honestly looked like a movie. There were way more police, National Guard, military, fire, EMS, construction workers than normal people. And the government had told us.
The EPA director, Christy Whitman, had issued a statement, public statement, saying the air is safe to breathe. Well, that was a total lie. A total lie. And so my joining the fire department in a way was trying to do something to honor the people who'd been killed, especially the firefighters who've been killed. 343 firefighters. It's just a like an astonishing number.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:07)
Far too many.
Peter McLaughlin (16:09)
Yeah. So to answer
To answer your question, I have this theory that we all, but one of the reasons that human beings are resistant to change is because everything that we've thought, everything that we've done, our personality has gotten us at least to this point. It may not have been perfect, but it got us to this point. And for me, something like a potentially deadly diagnosis. And when I asked the doctor how long do I have, he said, maybe 10 years.
This was twenty three years ago. And
Sarah Jordan-Ross (16:44)
And that was back
in the days when they'd give you that kind of information, whereas now with cancer they're very reluctant to to give that timeline. Yeah.
Peter McLaughlin (16:54)
he just tossed it right off. He just said,
I he said maybe, maybe 10 years. Anyway, it's it's something like that that caused me to think everything that I've thought, everything that I've done, everything that I've eaten has gotten me to this point. And this point, it might be the end. So my ability to to entertain being different.
Is really what changed. And that is ultimately what I'm the most grateful for. Because if it hadn't been for that, I wouldn't have changed. And in retrospect, I realized I wasn't going down a good road. I was angry. My back was always out. You know, I wasn't really happy. And and through the course of being trained to be a hypnotist.
I did my own work, and that that work paid huge dividends. Like I was able to entirely let go of the anger, for example. My back stopped hurting. I felt like I was a lot happier. I felt like I was doing work that was more meaningful. I felt like I was a better father, you know, not perfect, but a much better father, a better husband. Again, not perfect, but much better husband. And and and more compassion for people than I'd had previously.
And a much greater willingness ultimately to entertain the possibility of change, being willing to change.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:34)
So you mentioned that you've trained as a hypnotherapist and I'd really like to explore that a little bit with you. But it was you saw that you needed to make those changes. And I'm guessing
Peter McLaughlin (18:47)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (18:48)
some of it was you started asking questions of what needs to change and realizing that what got you to that point wasn't necessarily going to get you past that point.
that most times
Peter McLaughlin (19:04)
That's right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (19:05)
when we do something there's there's a payoff to to it in some way sometimes it's simply those coping mechanisms develop as a as a way to keep us safe so for example a young top learns to stay quiet or keep everybody happy notice the energy in a room those things develop to
Keep you safe, you might be avoiding anger or or giving having some sense of control of what's going on around you. But then later we see that those patterns don't always continue to help us. We come to that point where it's like, hey, it's not working anymore. So what brought you to that point of, hey, it's not working anymore? And how did you find hypnosis from that?
Peter McLaughlin (20:01)
Well, the hey, it's not working anymore was the leukemia diagnosis. And and when you get those two diagnoses together, Lyme disease and leukemia, the Lyme disease is like, that. It's like
Sarah Jordan-Ross (20:12)
yeah.
Peter McLaughlin (20:13)
whatever. so it was it was definitely the the the threat of mortality. And my children, I have three children, they were all little then. They were like eight, six, and four. And
The thought of leaving them was horrendous for me. So it was it was really just the the white the white hot fear of mortality that opened my mind to change. And it was a series of seemingly random events that I'm sure was not random that led me not only to hypnotherapy, but to the specific school I went to. So at the time
I I had owned a security guard company, a 50-person security guard company in just north of Manhattan, which is which is what I had when 9-11 happened. And I also was working as a consultant in in Manhattan, and that's why I was there. So I was doing these two things. And I sold that business and I was a little afraid of not having anything. And so I bought this little shipping and packing store. And this one day a woman walked in with a box and it was addressed to the Hypnotherapy Academy of America.
Santa Fe, New Mexico. And I was totally captivated by this. And I ended up getting into an hour-long conversation with her. And I owned the place. So I, you know, I didn't have a boss that told me, you know, you can stop talking for so long. And and and then, and then I just kind of filed it away. And then something else happened, again, kind of seemingly random. I can't even remember exactly what it was. And then a third thing happened, which was my wife and I streamed the movie The Secret. I think it was the first movie we ever streamed. And
Halfway through that movie, I just looked at her and I said, I need to be trained as a hypnotist. And she looked back and she said, Yes, you do. It was, I'm telling you, Sarah, it was just a it was a knowing. It wasn't logically thought out or anything. It was a knowing. And it just so happens that that school, because now I looked back at that school when I had this thought, I've got to be trained. And it turned out that that school was started.
Well, first of all, by the sister of the woman who came into my store in Connecticut. This is in New Mexico. And and her husband, who was the other co-founder, was a former paramedic. And I was so heavily identified as in the fire service at that point that was like, my God, this is perfect. And the focus of the school was on the adjunctive uses of hypnosis for medical purposes. And I was like, this is
And I called them up. I and I had a great conversation with the woman who was the like the intake director or whatever. And she said, We have one spot left. And we start next Tuesday. And it was like Thursday or something. And I, I'll take it. And it really was. She wasn't just saying it, it really
Sarah Jordan-Ross (23:13)
Manhattan to New Mexico.
Peter McLaughlin (23:15)
was the last spot. And I had one moment when I was traveling by bus from
Because I flew to Albuquerque and then took a bus from Albuquerque to Santa Fe. And I was on the bus and I had this moment of what am I doing? Where am I going? I've got three little kids at home. What if this is a just a total joke? But from the moment I walked through those doors, I felt like I am in the perfect place for me. And every single day I was completely captivated by this experience. And
As students, we worked with each other. We chose one of the instructors to be our hip hypnotherapist that worked with us. And that's how I was able to get rid of the anger. And it was just an extraordinary experience. I I I I can hardly believe that it that it happened so perfectly. But this is after all how everything works. So if the two diagnoses was essentially a spiritual two by four hitting me in the head to get my attention, to get back on.
on the path that I was not on, then it makes sense that if I said and I did, okay, I'm gonna walk through this door, that things would start to happen if I was open to them. And in order to be open to something, I think you have to have faith.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:40)
completely agree with that in the yeah I don't call coincidences I don't believe in coincidences really
Peter McLaughlin (24:52)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:52)
more god incidences or
Peter McLaughlin (24:55)
Yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (24:55)
as you said it was the it just made perfect sense you couldn't explain logically why when you had three little kids you'd
You were doing all the things, you would up stakes and go from New York to New Mexico. It it doesn't make sense. But everything in you said yes it does, 'cause
Peter McLaughlin (25:23)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (25:24)
it's part of a bigger picture that that you can't see right now.
Peter McLaughlin (25:28)
Yep, that's right. That's right. And it and it does require faith. And faith is, I think, when you can't prove to your conscious mind that this is real. But there's another part of you that is screaming, no, this is the right way, which is exactly the experience I had with my wife. And I used to ask my grandmother, how will I know when I meet the right person?
And she would always say the same thing, which was totally unsatisfying. And that was, because you'll know. And and when I met when I met my wife,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:03)
like that aren't they? You just will.
Peter McLaughlin (26:07)
it was like, that's what my grandmother meant. Like, because I describe it as a bell ringing in my head. That's what it that's what it seemed like. There wasn't an actual, I didn't hear ding-dong, ding-dong, ding dong, but that was the feeling of someone's ringing a bell trying to get your attention. And I wasn't, I I mean, when when I
When I met her, I think I was 32 or 30, maybe 33. I was 33. So I wasn't like a little kid. You know, I'd been around the block a couple of times, but something I knew within 20 minutes, totally different.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (26:41)
And I think when those things happen you just have to follow them and see where it where it goes. And your life might not end up exactly the way that you once thought it would. But odds are and feel free to agree or disagree, it worked out better.
Peter McLaughlin (27:02)
gosh, yes. Yeah. yeah, for sure. And it's not because
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:07)
And now you
Peter McLaughlin (27:09)
and we've been married now for 30 years, but it's not because it's all been a bed of roses. You know, it
Sarah Jordan-Ross (27:17)
Is any marriage ever?
Peter McLaughlin (27:18)
some of probably not. Some of some of the worst pain in my life is because of of being of being married to her. But the greatest times of my life is because being married to her. And I firmly believe.
That we have some kind of a soul contract with each other. And that's why when I came into her presence, I knew it was, I knew it was her. And I think part of that contract is to challenge each other, maybe not even consciously, but to do things that offers the other person an opportunity to go, how how much do I love her? Like what what am I willing to change?
Where if that feeling wasn't there, if that connection wasn't there, he might go, you know what, I've had enough of this. I'm moving on. And and the purpose isn't necessarily to say preserve the marriage or the relationship, but rather to grow as individuals. And and maybe the byproduct is you get to stay together. You get to grow more together.
And I and I feel like this was all
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:28)
'Cause you both realise you're not the same person.
Peter McLaughlin (28:30)
that this was all preordained. You know, that as I said, we had some kind of an agreement as souls together, and that we have we have helped each other grow. And the growth isn't all from, you know, everything going perfectly. A lot of times it's from clashing.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:49)
I sometimes think we learn more from the hard times than we do from the easy ones.
Peter McLaughlin (28:57)
Unquestionably. Unquestionably
Sarah Jordan-Ross (28:58)
Yeah.
Peter McLaughlin (28:59)
so.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:00)
And we need those things to to challenge us and and make us think and and question what we know, what we think we know, and the truth behind behind that and the do we believe everything happens for for a reason and a purpose? Is there a great plan that we're just not not privy to? I know for myself, I know there is a plan.
I really, really wish you'd let me in on it occasionally, but when I trust it, things tend to work out better than when I do that. But I want it this way and I want it to look like that and it all has to fit into this nice neat little box. Nothing fits nice and neatly into boxes.
Peter McLaughlin (29:45)
Ha ha.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (29:52)
So now you get to use all of those things that you learnt in hypnotherapy, helping other people.
Peter McLaughlin (30:00)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:01)
What's the biggest lesson you've learned through that?
Peter McLaughlin (30:08)
The the truth of the ancient axiom, it's the it's the law of correspondence, which is one of the seven hermetic principles. And that law of correspondence states as above, so below, as within, so without. And it's the as within, so without part that really that really guides my work. In other words, if a person's having serious problems on the outside.
It's ultimately a
Sarah Jordan-Ross (30:39)
Look at the inside.
Peter McLaughlin (30:40)
reflection of what's already going on inside of them. And again, you could look at that, people can look at that and saying that's blaming the victim. But you can look at the exact same phenomenon and say, no, it means you're more powerful than you realize you are. And more, you have more in your control. If you're in the victim mentality, you're basically waiting for someone else to change for you to be happy.
If you're in this creator mode, you get to make the change. Just like when that therapist said to me, what if the dark cloud that you feel is following you around is actually a mirror? That's the law of correspondence.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (31:22)
What's it trying to show you?
Peter McLaughlin (31:25)
That's right. That's exactly right. And then the other the other thing is w and this is j this is obviously these are all my opinions based upon all my experiences, including twenty years of doing this work with thousands of people.
but I believe in the primacy of the law of free will as a universal law. Everybody knows, I well, most people know in the United States that we have this constitution, and part of the constitution is the Bill of Rights. And the First Amendment, the one that the founders thought was the most important, was freedom of speech. Well, I think that that may be that free will on it on a universal level.
Maybe kind of like the Bill of Rights, and maybe the First Amendment to that Bill of Rights. And that this is of vital importance for all of us. So I I can't change someone's path. They have to want it. I can't, I can't force them to do anything. They have to be willing to do that. And so a lot of times I've referred to myself as a spiritual lawyer.
Presenting eventing presenting evidence to the jury. And in this case, it's the client. The client is actually the jury. So, like a good lawyer, I'll, you know, when when the client is in, you know, I've helped them put get in touch, say, with their spirit guide. Or maybe an ascended master like Jesus. And I'll I'll say to the client, ask your guides who benefits by you holding on to this guilt.
I know what the answer's gonna be. And
and I said, what
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:09)
Nobody.
Peter McLaughlin (33:09)
what's Jesus telling you? the answer's nobody. Who would benefit if you let go of this guilt? What what's he saying? my kids would benefit. My friends would benefit, my clients would benefit. okay. I know that this is coming. okay. So in light of in light of what you've just heard, are you willing to let go of the guilt? If they say no, then I'll say something like
How about this? How about you let go of the guilt fully and completely, but only for 30 seconds, just to see what it feels like and then take it all back. And I know what's going to happen. That in that 30 seconds,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (33:47)
They're not gonna take it back.
Peter McLaughlin (33:48)
it's going to feel so good to them that they're not going to want to take it back. But it but none of this is a trick on my part. Because if they really want to take it back, I'll say, Shay, take it back. And that does happen sometimes. But then I'll say, are you willing to let it go for 45 seconds?
Well, yeah. Okay, do that. And we can do this multiple times because eventually they'll get to the point where you know what? I don't want that back.
And this all conforms to the law of free will, as does another spiritual concept, which is spiritual entity attachments. So a spiritual entity can only attach to a person if, like Velcro, there's a hook on one side and a loop on the other one. It's the only way it can happen. Which means that once again, the
Releasing that connection is within the power of the person that has the attachment problem, the client. Now, the attachment is probably something that's subconscious. In other words, they may not have actively said, I want this thing to attach to me. But on some level, they did. And working with that law of free will, we can release that thing.
Because it's within the power of the client to do so.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:14)
That's one I think one of the great things about hypnosis too is that it doesn't just treat the external symptom, it looks at what's going on on that internal and remembering that if it's going on outside of you, it's probably going on inside of you to start with. And that you have the power to change that.
Peter McLaughlin (35:33)
It's taken me.
Yep. It's taken me so long to come up with a with a title for myself. Because
Sarah Jordan-Ross (35:41)
Ha ha ha.
Peter McLaughlin (35:42)
the even when I go to hypnosis conventions, I don't, there are some people there that do my the do the work I do, but we're in a very small, small minority, even amongst hypnotists that are already in a small minority in the general public. And so what I came up with finally was spiritual root cause coach.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:03)
Yeah. I like that.
Peter McLaughlin (36:04)
Because root
cause is everything to me. If I were a mechanic and you brought your car to me because it had smoke coming out of the engine and I installed a fan to blow away the smoke, you wouldn't be happy. You would expect me to dig through the bowels of the engine until I found where some kind of fluid was spraying onto something hot and creating the smoke. So I could fix that hose and stop the symptoms.
Without having to deal with the symptoms. That's what you would want. And it
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:36)
Yes.
Peter McLaughlin (36:37)
is has always been fascinating to me that is, that as citizens of the modern world, that we will accept things for our bodies and our minds that we would never accept for our car.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (36:54)
Yes, it's funny the way we look at the look at things. Or we say things to ourselves that we would never dream of saying. Sorry.
Peter McLaughlin (36:58)
I know. W when the when the hematologist oncologist I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:05)
We say things to ourselves that we would never dream of saying to another
Peter McLaughlin (37:09)
Exactly.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:10)
person and yet we heap it on ourselves and then wonder why we end up feeling awful.
It's just that changing how we how we think about it, remembering that we have the power to do that.
Peter McLaughlin (37:25)
Yeah, and here's a good reframe for that situation, because I run into that a lot with my clients.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:28)
Yeah.
Peter McLaughlin (37:31)
Is my belief is that's actually a form of pride. So pride is the worst of the cardinal sense. I never understood why this was for many years. But the way
Sarah Jordan-Ross (37:42)
Mm.
Peter McLaughlin (37:42)
I define pride is anything that sets you apart from everyone else. Now we would normally think of pride as, well, I'm better than everyone else. What does that do? It sets you apart from everyone else, right? You're saying
I'm better or I'm different or I'm separate from the rest of humanity. Well, it's the same thing at the other end of the spectrum. I'm worse than everyone else is the exact same thing. It's a form of pride. And the solution to pride is humility. So if you would forgive your best friend for doing something that you did, but you won't forgive yourself, or you would never say, you know, to your point,
These nasty things about your friends or your kids that you're saying in your internal monologue, you're suffering from a form of pride. And the solution is humility. I'm no better than anyone else, and I'm no worse than anyone else. And I deserve the same kind of compassion. I am worthy of the same kind of forgiveness that I would bestow upon other people.
It's time for me to rejoin humanity and get over my this idea that I'm uniquely gifted or I'm uniquely horrible.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:02)
Just to remember that we're all connected and that we're all
From whichever spiritual tradition you come from, most of us have the we are made in the image and likeness of the Creator.
We are all children of.
Peter McLaughlin (39:22)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:24)
And we all deserve that same respect, kindness, compassion. And
Peter McLaughlin (39:29)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (39:30)
I remember reading once that we should treat every person we meet as if they'd be gone by midnight and extend to them all the care, kindness, compassion that you can muster. And if you can do that.
Then life will never be the same. And I think that's probably fairly true. If we can start treating ourselves and everyone else with that same level of compassion and kindness, that we can see the good in everyone, including ourselves.
Peter McLaughlin (40:06)
Yeah, totally agree.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:07)
And not seek to separate us based on differences. If we looked at more the things that connect us rather than what divides us, we might see a change.
Peter McLaughlin (40:17)
We might. I think we would. We will. It's gonna happen.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (40:21)
Yes. And if more people start looking at, as you said, the root causes of problems and fixing it from that level.
Yeah, we'll get lasting healing.
Peter McLaughlin (40:36)
Yeah, there I I worked with someone today on essentially ancestral healing. And I and I do think it's true that like a stone thrown into a still pond, that pain ripples in all directions. And in the case of family systems and generations, it can ripple up and down, as well as out.
And the beauty is that healing does the exact same thing. And I believe
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:13)
It ripples out.
Peter McLaughlin (41:14)
that people, and I don't know if it's everyone, it may be, but people get into situations where they can be a catalyst not only for their own healing, but for their ancestors. And
For their children and for their siblings and for their parents, even if they're deceased. That's what we were working on today.
That I had a client I had a client,
Sarah Jordan-Ross (41:41)
Do you want to unpack that a little bit more?
Peter McLaughlin (41:43)
a client's great grandfather was so mad that his daughter was going off and eloping with someone that he issued a curse. He cursed her. And that that woman, my client's grandmother, lost five babies.
And today we we served as a catalyst to reverse the curse. Who reversed it? Her great grandfather.
We invited him forward in the presence of Jesus, the angel Raphael, my client's spirit guide, my client, and one of the five babies that had died in birth who who was my client in an earlier incarnation.
And and in the presence of all of these people, her great grandfather broke down on his knees and he wept. And he formally dissolved the curse.
And was blessed by Jesus.
And was forgiven by his relatives. The most beautiful thing.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:14)
That would have been amazing to be part of of that
Peter McLaughlin (43:17)
It was
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:18)
and that multi-generational healing.
Peter McLaughlin (43:22)
It was.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:25)
'Cause it just shows just because somebody's in the the next realm and you can't see them, it doesn't mean that they're not still affecting you and you're not still affecting them.
Peter McLaughlin (43:40)
Exactly right.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (43:46)
Is there one last thing that you would like to leave our audience with today? From all that you've experienced and all that you've learnt? What's one th message you'd like to pass on, one thing that gives you hope?
Peter McLaughlin (44:05)
As long as you have breath.
You have the ability to change.
No one is hopeless. No one is broken.
And that the answer ultimately is always forgiveness. Not the forgiveness that happens in your conscious mind, that's where it starts, but the forgiveness that happens in your heart.
When you are able to recognize the transgressions of other people.
as things you've probably done yourself, if not in this life, in another lifetime. Again, that idea of pride versus humility.
You know, so if you're if you're struggling with somebody in your family, if you've felt like you've had to cut somebody out of your life, or if you've been cut out of their life, you can reach them in your consciousness. Because we exist not just in the physical plane, we also simultaneously exist in the quantum field, let's say. And in your mind, in your consciousness, you can bring them forward.
And you can communicate with them in your consciousness. And in my experience, this impacts, it affects them on a level that's very difficult to understand.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (45:36)
Yeah. We have to remember that we're spiritual beings first and foremost. We're just spiritual beings having a physical experience and sometimes we forget and put it the other way around.
Peter McLaughlin (45:49)
Exactly. One of my favorite quotes from Jesus is, I am in this world, I am not of this world.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (45:54)
Not of this world.
Peter McLaughlin (45:56)
And I would have to say that's true for the rest of us.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (45:59)
Yeah. Maybe that's the trick to remember to be in the world but not of the world.
Peter McLaughlin (46:06)
Yes, I I believe that to be true. I believe that to be true. And in that sense, you know, they talk about aliens. If if that's true, and I think it is, then we are all aliens. This is not our permanent home. This is where we come to learn things. It's like a college campus or something.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (46:27)
And we get to go back to that other realm when we're when we're ready. And it'll some of us call it by different things, but this is my personal one. We might call it by different names, but I think it's probably the same place.
Peter McLaughlin (46:45)
Probably the same place.
Yeah, and I think we go there in our dreams. I think we go
Sarah Jordan-Ross (46:49)
Yeah.
Peter McLaughlin (46:52)
there, I think we go there in our consciousness. We just don't realize that's what it is. But when people have a dream and they wake up in the morning and they say, my God, it was so real, it's because it was real.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (47:05)
On some
on some level it was real.
Peter McLaughlin (47:09)
Yeah, remember that when we say the word reality, what we're largely saying is it has to conform to one of our five physical senses. I have to see it, taste it, touch it, feel it, smell it, hear it for it to be real. That's simply not true. And this and a simple thought ex experiment you can do is you can say, okay, there's a person in the next room who is a musical composer.
When they hear the melody in their head, are we saying it's not real until they write it on a piece of paper or until they play it on a piano?
So an experience that you have when you're asleep, why is that not real? Especially
Sarah Jordan-Ross (47:55)
Mm.
Peter McLaughlin (47:55)
if you wake up in the morning with tears streaming down your face.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (48:00)
You know that something's happened. I think I think it was Nietzsche. I could be wrong on that, but the line was How do I know for certain that when I'm asleep I'm a man dreaming I'm a butterfly? How do I know when I'm awake that I'm not a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Was that it all depends on how you how you look at it and yeah. What says which experience is is real and which isn't, and maybe they both are.
Peter McLaughlin (48:34)
I tend to I tend to think after all these years that everything is real. It's just different versions of reality. And this is why so your subconscious mind is 95% of your brain's processing power. 95%. And the subconscious cannot distinguish between something that the conscious mind says is fact or the conscious mind says is fiction. And this is why when you go to a movie and there's a chase scene or it's a thriller.
You get an elevated heart rate. Your blood pressure goes up. You start dumping adrenaline and cortisol into your bloodstream. You start squeezing the armrests, right? Maybe you turn your eyes away. You consciously know there's no danger here, but to 95% of your brain and a hundred percent of your body, that's real. And that's why it's producing real, measurable physiological responses inside of your body.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (49:32)
'Cause our body responds exactly the same way to a physical threat or an emotional threat. It can't tell the difference, it just gets the danger
Peter McLaughlin (49:39)
It can't tell the difference.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (49:40)
signal.
Peter McLaughlin (49:41)
It can't tell the difference. So I would say that the movie actually is its own version of reality because it's producing real responses within people.
Just like a thought, thought is its own version of reality. And if you keep thinking that you're worthless.
That becomes real.
And this is why in that book, The Four Agreements, he talks about one of the agreements is be impeccable with your word.
Don't say things about yourself you wouldn't say about your children or your best friend.
Even if you think you're being humble or whatever it is, no, your words are extremely powerful. So be careful with them. The way you would be careful with a firearm, don't point it at anyone unless you intend to use it.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (50:38)
And that I think is a great thought to to end on. Our thoughts have power, our words have power. Be careful how you use them and
Peter McLaughlin (50:48)
Yes.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (50:49)
try to use them to create good in the world because we do all have that creative power. It is is
Peter McLaughlin (50:56)
Yes, we do.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (50:57)
part of who we are.
Peter McLaughlin (50:59)
It certainly is, yeah.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:01)
And I think that's probably one of the things that I'll be taking away from this conversation is our ability to impact the world around us and how things can be changed by how we think and how we feel, and that remembrance that we are we are spirit having a physical experience and that forgiveness is one of the things that we should really practice.
more and not just for others but for ourselves as well.
Peter McLaughlin (51:35)
Definitely.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:36)
To not have that pride be the thing that separates us from everyone else.
Peter McLaughlin (51:42)
Definitely. Couldn't agree more.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (51:46)
Now, for those of you listening, if something we've said today has made you think differently about your own experience or helped you understand what someone else might be going through, then share this episode with somebody who needs to hear it. And until next time, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other. And remember, your story matters, so share it, because your story just might be the one that changes.
Another person's life. Thank you, Peter, for joining me today. It's been a wonderful conversation.
Peter McLaughlin (52:23)
Thank you, Sarah. I feel the same way.
Sarah Jordan-Ross (52:26)
Until next time, I'm Sarah Jordan Ross and this has been Taboo Talk.