This isn’t just another marriage story—it’s a raw, vulnerable, and hope-filled deep dive into love that’s been battle-tested. In this special crossover episode of Taboo Talk with Sarah and The Laptop Lifestyle Dad Show, hosts Sarah and Jeff Ross sit down for the first time as a couple on air to unpack the beautiful chaos of building a life together through faith, heartbreak, disability, parenting three neurodiverse boys, and the near-collapse of their marriage. From homelessness to healing, suicide to spiritual awakening, this episode holds nothing back. If you’ve ever struggled in your relationship, questioned your purpose, or needed proof that transformation is possible—this conversation is for you.
✔️ Love Through the Fire – What it really takes to fight for your marriage when everything falls apart
✔️ Faith & Mental Health – The turning point that shifted an atheist into a pastor
✔️ Parenting Through Trauma – Raising three boys with honesty, transparency, and heart
✔️ Survival Mode vs Safe Spaces – Why connection and community are the antidote to isolation
✔️ Messy, Beautiful Transformation – The power of surrender, stubborn love, and saying “yes” to healing
🗣️ “I tried to push her away. She stayed. That’s the kind of love that changes everything.” – Jeff Ross
🗣️ “We argue in front of our kids… but we also show them how to forgive.” – Sarah Ross
🗣️ “You don’t get to skip the messy middle. But you do get to choose who you walk through it with.”
⏱️ 00:00 – Welcome + Why they’re turning the mics on each other
⏱️ 06:15 – The wild way they met in a rainforest spa
⏱️ 10:40 – The early years: whiskey, wanderlust, and wild kids
⏱️ 18:00 – How grief, disability, and parenting broke them—and what pulled them back
⏱️ 27:45 – The moment Jeff tried to end his life—and the miracle that stopped him
⏱️ 35:30 – How church, community, and a screaming toddler saved their marriage
⏱️ 44:55 – Raising boys with MS, ADHD, and everything in between
⏱️ 56:10 – Why they started an online church for misfits, seekers & the hurting
⏱️ 1:10:30 – The healing power of stories & why they tell the hard truths
⏱️ 1:19:00 – Final thoughts, dad jokes, and a heart-filled wrap-up
💜 If this episode hit home—don’t keep it to yourself. Share it. Someone you know needs to hear that healing is possible.
💬 Let’s keep the conversation going.
🎧 Subscribe to both podcasts on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube—and drop a review to help more people find this story of redemption and real-life resilience.
Jeff Ross (00:00) Hey everybody, welcome back to Taboo Talk with Sarah, the podcast that breaks silences, fosters hope and talks about the tough stuff so you never feel alone. I'm your host, Sarah Jordan Ross. I'm the mum of three wild and wonderful boys. And today we're doing things a little differently. I've got my husband on the podcast. So let's see how this goes.
As partners in life, love, parenting and ministry and business, we thought it'd be good for us to give you an opportunity to get to know us as a couple. thought it was time to bring you into our world. The raw, real, beautiful, sometimes even very messy parts of building life together. So it's a little bit different for both of us. I'm used to having my person on the screen.
So it's strange having somebody sitting next to me, but this is going to be fun. I think this is going to be a hoot. I don't actually know what possessed me to make this happen, but hey, let's see where this goes. You've got some crazy ideas that pop into your head sometimes. Sure do. So Sarah, let's start with our story. So let's describe, I suppose, our version of how we met, you know, and you know, what's happened over the last 16 years. Like,
Yeah, I know, right. 16 years. You know, how we align our vision and our purposes and faith and, know, let's help people get to the nitty gritty of the heart of it all. What makes the Jordan Ross family? So, Sarah, how did we meet?
In the middle of rainforest, well actually, we were both working at O'Reilly's in the Gold Coast Hinterland and you walked into my spa on your very first day. I was senior therapist's spa coordinator and you'd just started as head barman. Yeah, and I think I was- And it was Australia Day. I think I might have been about 40 kilos lighter too and a bit hunkier. Yeah, just slightly. So I was the head barman at O'Reilly's rainforest retreat and you were the-
senior spa therapist there. yeah, like I suppose, you know, that first connection, right? We just, we just got off on a house on fire. Yep. I think it was fueled by a joint love of country music and good whiskey. Yeah. I think the whiskey had a lot to do that first night. Yeah, probably. And maybe we should pull it up there because it's a pretty crazy wild stories. Not really. No, no, not at all.
So maybe our kids don't need to hear it. Our kid is our editor. So yeah, well, that could be fun. We might have to hold back a little bit. Just a little. Maybe we'll see. My show is called Taboo Talk. We talk about stuff we don't normally talk about. well, let's get into that. So, you know, we're doing life together. We do, you know, parenting. We've got three amazing boys here. They're in private schools and you know,
Yeah, we got one with MS, we've got one with ADHD and then we've got... boringly normal. Boringly normal? No. He's got his quirks. He is very quirky. And he's also, as much as he wouldn't know it, I actually...
I'm quite into it, but like that he doesn't have medical issues and how I've seen him grow with, watching his brothers cope with that. But it's also reminds me that sometimes because he doesn't, I need to pay attention to what's going on with him that it would be really easy to miss in the midst.
of having two other boys who do have extra needs. I don't like the term special needs because I believe all children, all people are special. We're all created in our own unique ways with purposes that only we can fill. But there are some people around who need a little extra care, little extra love, a little extra attention, a little extra help to be the best that they
can be because they're facing struggles that the rest of us don't. Yeah, totally. And I think we've got some really important topics right here. So guys, we're both marketers, we're both leaders, we're both influential people in our own right. We've had to grow through the messy and do life together. And so, you know, this serves both podcast shows, right? But it's more about you getting to know us and getting to know the heart of
what drives us, what we do. So I want to come back to, you know, how we met, you know, really two very different people, very two very different backgrounds. Right. And, that did cause some messy conflict, some challenging times. But one of the things I love about you, Sarah, and one of the things I've learned from you is the power of
just meeting people where they're at, coming into that sacrificial type life and love to go through the hard, to go through the transformation and to help see, help people to see the best in themselves, to help be empowered, to help them to bring hope, light and joy into their life, to bring possibility. And you were that for me in some of my darkest days. And, but,
Let's just go right back to the beginning, you know, the romantic sort of phase when we really didn't know what we were getting ourselves into yet. And the possibility and hope and love and joy and, you know, that honeymoon phase of our early days, our early marriage. And let's talk about some of the taboo stuff, if you will, the challenging stuff that most couples sort of just
dismiss and move on because it's like, that's part of the process, right? But like you married a cowboy. Yep. You married an atheist. You married someone who used to like drink, party and smoke and have a good time. It was all about the now. It was all about, you know, instant gratification. Like that was my upbringing, right? I was, I was brought up in Western New South Wales. I was brought up with the
you know, the cowboy sort of attitude cowboy up and, and, you know, didn't have a faith background whatsoever. I, I, I smoked a pack at a day. I, I, I, I drank pretty heavy. I get, was a gambler and like, you know, to, help be the person I am today to go through the transformation and step up and take ownership. The main reason I've done what I've done, the hard yards that I've done is for you.
Not, and, not for you, but for me, but because you saw the hope, the joy, the possibility, you saw something in me that nobody else really could see or would see. And you helped me get through that and you helped me to want to be a better person. So my question for you here, you know, and I want you to explain your background a little bit for our listeners too. But my question here for you is what attracted you to me?
Like, why did you stay with me? I just, you know, everybody else, what's the answer to this question? think a lot of our family probably wants the answer to this question. You know, what did you see in me?
You brought out the joy and the fun and reminded me who I was. You saw so much more than just the massage therapist. the, just what I did. You saw into more of that. And we actually had even back then deep conversations about spirituality. I loved that we would stay up for hours just talking about all sorts of stuff.
Yes, just talking in the very early days.
Please don't gross the children out. Yep, sorry. You say I like to make you laugh, so. Yeah. Sometimes he's very funny haha and sometimes he's funny strange. And somehow got through that. I suppose my background. So on faith.
things I was raised Catholic. have four aunts who are nuns. God was a given in my life from day one. But what was really cool was how my mum did it. I was always given a choice about following my faith. I was never forced to go to church. Any of that mum would say, I'm going, are you coming or not? And there it was. But when we met, I was also 34 and
While my mum worked for a government department and we moved around a lot, I then developed gypsy tendencies. I'll also add I was 26 so she's a cradle snatcher. That's a taboo talk in itself, right?
We'll come back. We'll come back to that one. Women live on average seven years longer. So that's actually the perfect age gap. If you want to go that way. Well, there you go. We've worked out the perfect age gap. You got women, you're going to marry someone younger. Yeah. And that way you can get them young and train them right.
Alright, so come back to telling people, telling our audience. have, in Australia I have lived as far north as Cape Tribulation, as far east as Brampton Island, as far west as Morey and as far south now as Launceston. We've been in Launceston 10 years, no 11 years. Hang on Howard's Auckland? Almost 12. Almost 12, so it's going on 12 years that we've been...
In Launceston, that is the longest I have lived anywhere my whole life. Prior to that, the longest was probably about four and that was when I was at university. So there's another of the differences between us. I have university education. I dropped out of school in year nine. The first year of our marriage, I started a master's degree in bioscience research after having spent
I have a degree in sociology and human bioscience and then went into massage and I've spent the last 25 years in a health and wellness space. Sarah's very educated and very knowledgeable and has a lot of wisdom in this space yet. I haven't got a piece of paper to my name. I've gone through the school of hard knocks and, you know, I learned to fail forward fast to be where I am today. So some very different pathways to get where we are. Yeah, but we both like
gathering wisdom from those around us and gathering stories because so many of us, we have amazing stories to tell and our stories are the thing that connect us and are the thing that allow us to help each other. So we'll get into the stories in a moment because I think it's very important for people to understand where we come from. And essentially, like I teach an attraction marketing writers.
is the struggles, the sucksville, the pain, the dark days. There were a few. Well, tried to very publicly announce, I tried to kill myself over 10 years ago. So there's a reason behind that. So let's unpack that a bit more from both sides of the story. I want to come back around to sort of influence, right? Because leadership is influence and influence is leadership, right?
And I think that's probably one of the areas that we're both groaning over this last decade and a half together is learning how to become better influences and better leaders for not just for ourselves, but for our family and for our community. And like we'd done a crazy thing last year, like we started an online church. Like you've got to be a bit of a crazy misfit type person to want to go do that. Hey, I've never fitted nice and neatly into any box anyone's tried to put me into.
Right. So I don't want to come to that. That's the topic I want to hit on, right? There's a different areas here, but let's come back to the early days. So we've got an atheist and essentially someone who comes from a Christian background is very devout. Yes. I was asked once at a time when I wasn't attending church regularly, what it was that made someone whose faith was as strong as mine. If there is one thing I know, there is a God and he has a plan.
Some days I wish he'd let me in on it. And I really wish before I had to learn the hard lessons that he'd take his steel caps off before he boots me up the backside. that's just how it's when I trust that there is a plan and I lean into that and I go with that, things work out so much better. It's when I do the, but I want it.
this way and I want it now and I don't get why it's not happening. And Chuck, my little three year old temper tantrum and- we're both pretty good at that. Yeah. know, in 80 grams like I'm an eight year old and we both in that Inca triad. Yeah. And then if you want to look at, at other things, cause another one of those taboo topics sometimes is astrology and how that works. I'm a Scorpio. So I'm supposed to-
have a filthy temper, which I can do, and a nasty sting in my tail and... And I'm a goat. I like the butt heads. So we make an interesting mix on a lot of... But yeah, the personality profiles, there is some bits where we complement each other perfectly and other bits where we are so...
different in how we see and approach everything. And let's talk about the differences. Yeah. Because a lot of outside influence, family included on both sides of the family, have tried to say that we're not a good fit for each other in a nice way. No, in no uncertain terms. Like, I want to get raw and real and vulnerable here for a second. you know, your sister,
basically tried to convince you to leave me in my dark days. And you had every reason to, you know, she was justified in that because she was trying to protect you. get it. But you stayed by me. You, you stuck by that hard and you're probably one of the most stubborn people I've ever met. Yep. But you're also one of the most forgiving people I've ever met. you know, influence, we're talking about influence here in this conversation, right?
What influenced you to stay when I was being a complete asshole?
Because I knew where that was coming from, I knew the pain that was behind that. And I also knew I was dealing with my own pain and...
We got very disconnected in those stages too. And I was at the...
point, like dealing with my mom's cancer and having a baby, dealing with your disability. had personal depression, we didn't even realize that that was it because with everything else that was going on, I was just getting through every day the best I could. But there was also like why I stayed was because
I knew who and what we were outside of that pain and what we could be and what we were together.
and
You're right. I am stubborn and as bad as things got.
I never got to the point where I went, nah, I just want, I came very close to leaving a couple of times. You threatened to leave several times and there was a few times that I was ready to, to let you, but it also, and looking back on it now, I will admit and I'm really glad I've worked through a lot of my issues. Still working through. Yeah.
Abandonment was a big thing for me.
and also...
I suppose I'd, cause my parents divorced when I was quite young. I was raised by a single working mom who I don't know how she managed it. Cause she still never missed a school concert that I was singing in or a race I was running. It's hard enough doing it as a couple. I have my hats off to any single parent out there doing it. Cause it's parenting is a tough gig and it's even tougher when you're doing it by yourself.
And I suppose I was always right too. so I traveled by myself because I did also do a stint in the UK and Canada. went to the UK on a working holiday, no job, no house, no, no nothing, but enough. Enough money to buy a plane ticket home if I needed it. So, both of us before we met each other had really figured out
our identity and who we were. Like I'd been to New Zealand for a good stint over there. I left home at 15. You know, I traveled quite a fair bit of Australia and you know, that sort of thing. I thought I knew who I was. I'm naive looking back at it now, but I had a sense of identity and what I wanted my life to look like. And so did you. We had a sense of identity outside of our families. Yes.
And I think when we came together, we complimented each other's identity and we liked what was brought out in those romantic honeymoon phases. We challenged each other in good ways. Yeah, we helped each other to grow. Yeah. Right. And to step up and be challenged in a good way, but to grow together. And I'd say that the number one thing that we've done well is we've looked for ways to continue to grow together. Yeah.
And so I see like my own, my own parents' marriage breakdown, probably your parents' marriage breakdown. Any relationship breakdown is because they've grown apart, not grown together. they've grown individually, but they've grown in different directions. What they've wanted is different. And then there's always the, and again, it's one of those taboo topics that we talk about, the differences. So.
My mum is very strong, independent, but yes, one of those first generations of working mums. So when my parents divorced, I was the only kid I knew who had divorced parents. But I look at my parents and when they were together, they were really together and they were good together. I know my parents loved each other. They were married for 25 years and had five children.
But they went through some challenges and they had different ideas of how to do that. And then I think when my mum got a really good government job in Sydney that required us moving away, it was hard for my dad who'd always been there. And you could relate to that. Man's supposed to be the provider. He's supposed to be main breadwinner. Yeah. So then when my mum was able to take on that role, it was hard for them and they didn't adjust to that really.
And I know in days too, in our early days, so I'm the more educated one. I'm, at, in our early marriage, I was making more money than you. Well, there's been in our entire marriage has been stages where it's been, it's been me, it's been you, it's been me, it's been you, but. And we've been okay with that. to be and necessity. But we were both independent before that.
it was two independent people coming together. Whereas sometimes, it's, and there has been times through, through our marriage, we've been together, what 16? Yeah. And there's been times where I've dragged you kicking and screaming and tried to, to force it to go one way or another, not realizing that, I need to learn to get your buy in and get your, get you to say yes, rather than just say, fuck it. Like you coming this way with me or not.
Yeah, and sometimes I let you think that you're in control.
Yeah. Just to stop it in, how I get funny thing that just popped into my head was one afternoon you and I were, having a discussion and arguing maybe. Yeah. And our son Harrison comes out with now is this what you call passive aggressive negotiation? It's just like, crap. I've just been called out on my behavior by my 12 year old. We're pretty transparent as a family. We don't hold back. Like we.
We argue in front of our kids, but we also make up and forgive in front of our kids. Like they see the whole lot. And so I know we do a lot of things different to what a lot of other people do it. You know, like, let's face it, like there was the whole sex before marriage conversation. Yes, which is a good little Catholic girl. But yeah, some would say good little Catholic, depends on your definition of those words. anyway.
That's a whole kit of words. But yeah, there were there were challenges and differences of things and.
There has been times, because yes, I do have a strong faith, but there has been times when I have walked away from it. went questioning and... Well, you also get, we also get influenced by other circles too, right? And in our Western world, especially like it's a very secular world. Yeah. And we're very influenced by what other people are doing. And peer pressure has a big thing. Yeah. But I also think that, you know,
And it's going to sound very blunt for a second, weak minds get peer pressured. Those of us who have gone through the hard, the internal, the messy and got their mental fortitude and use, you know, the right healthy things to help us, guide us, to shape us. That itself is, is brainwashing and we get to choose what we get brainwashed with. Right. So it's our choice in that space, but there are a lot of people who are a little bit blind or a little bit
You know, not awake to certain things. It's probably the best way to put it and manipulated and influenced and, and taken different directions. then there's also the, we all go through lots of different experiences and everyone will have their different way of coping with that or a different way of numbing out. Cause a lot of times those behaviors.
drinking, sex, drugs, gambling, you name it, all those things, they are generally a very bad coping mechanism for dealing with the crap you've been through. We're going to survival, right? Yeah. So my advice was gambling. Yep. And when I look back at our hard season,
my hard season, I got to the point where I thought the best way for everything to move forward was for me not to be a part of the equation and to kill myself. And my way of dealing with that was to get angry and verbally abusive to push everybody away. I didn't realize that that's what I was doing, but now I look back on the other side of that's exactly what I was doing. was the thanks coping mechanism. Yeah, because you didn't feel like you deserved.
to be loved. Like you deserve to be cared for. had major things of lack of self. Well, it's not deserving at all. I don't think that's the right word. I didn't feel seen, heard, known, or even understood. Yeah. I think when we talk about Maslow's hierarchy of core needs, right? We talk about, you're making sure we've got safety, like a roof over our head. We've got, you know, the power turned on. We've got our bills paid. Their physical core needs.
But all of us, yeah, don't look at the emotional. I'd say there's a baseline underneath that even that we need more than we need a roof over our head. We need people who see us, who help us to feel understood, help us feel known, heard and loved and help us to feel like we belong somewhere. We need a sense of belonging. And until we've really found that sense of belonging, we're always going to be in that escapism, that space of coping.
And of trying to fit in. love how Brené Brown describes the difference between belonging and fitting in. says fitting in requires you to change who you are to fit in with that group. Yeah. And quite often that is what we'll do when we're in pain. We'll say, yeah, hanging out with this particular crap, but it's, but in order to hang out with them, I have to.
be, do, look, a certain way. You have to conform, not transform, you have to conform. Yeah. But then when we find that place that we truly belong, that is where they see us for who we really are and where they come alongside us and don't expect us to be anything different. We are able to just be who we are.
And that is truly belonging. And I think that's what all of us are searching for. So let's come back to, you know, our hard time there as well. I got, you know, I gave you every reason to, to, to run away, to move away. I pushed very, very hard and you know, look, there was, there was times where you pushed back as well. that's something like, it wasn't always just me, but
you know, in that space, in that darkness, in that hopelessness, in that lost, you know, you're stuck by it, you know? So what we're talking about sense of belonging, right? Because when we find our tribe, we find our vibe, but when we find our purpose and our why, we'll go through, well, look at Paul from the Solitarsis, He was very clear on his mission. He was very clear on his why.
And he went through hell and back to be able to fulfill on that mission. got shipwrecked, he got flogging, he got stoned. He got almost like to the point where bashed to death and prisons and all of that. And still he went through that really challenging, torturous, you know, mission and experience. he, he, his identity was belonging to that purpose.
So what was it for you? Like what for you helped you to go through hell and back?
maybe we should tell them a bit of the hell and back that I did go through. So- Well, yeah, start there and then I'll share my side of that. So, I was the sick kid and then I cared for my mum through a cancer journey. I lost her two weeks before our son Lachlan was born. Now Lachlan is our middle.
Sun.
Um, he was born two weeks after mum passed. He was also a preemie. Yes, he was six weeks preemie and, had a few issues. Um, we also, at that stage,
I was lost so I had done and travelled and done all those things because
I was lucky enough to be raised by somebody who knew that the best way to get me to do something was to tell me that I couldn't.
or be... So when I decided I wanted to go to the UK, my mum helped me fill in all the applications because she was right behind it. Thought, yep, go do it. A few other people, it's like, why do you want to do that? Because I can. That was, think, the other thing that... Beautiful example of leadership. She empowered you and equipped you to go stand up on your own two feet. Yeah. And that the best reason to do anything is because you can and you want to.
Yeah, but your mother didn't try to rescue or save you though. She influenced you, she led you, she empowered you. And quite often she would send me out into the world and if I fell flat on my face, she'd pick me up, dust me off and say, all right, go do the next stupid thing. Yeah. And because of that, I was never afraid to go in and try that because I always knew I would have her to come back to. that she, yeah, she would pick me up, dust me off and...
You that safe space to be able to that you belong to to help you to come back and repair and heal. Yeah. And then when I lost that and I had this tiny baby who had extra needs at that time. And I also had Harrison who was 18 months. Yeah. 17 months old when he, when mum passed. Yeah. And her husband has just been basically wiped off the board on a put onto a disability pension and was struggling.
with all of what that meant for you. And I just kind of went, oh crap, what do I do? I'm glad that I did have faith because I don't know how I would have gotten through that had I not, because that was another thing that my family gave me. And I'm very grateful for that. But let's talk about that side of things too. Like in this moment, both our families weren't very supportive or helpful.
We were very much on our own. don't think they knew how to be. No, they didn't know how to be. That's why they weren't. And that's what happens, right? And we didn't know what we needed. So we didn't know how to ask for it. And I know there were several times, like through mum's cancer journey, like different support services that asked her what she needs. And I will use it through. She said, could somebody please just give me a menu of what
is out of I can pick from so I can pick it because if you ask me to think about what I need, I haven't got a clue. That's just another decision, another hard thing, another thing that my brain just cannot cope with right this minute. And I was very much in that space and say, just give me, but even better, just give me two choices, narrow it down for me. Yeah, either or, just give me solutions. Yeah. Yeah.
Don't be a problem finder, just add another problem to the ask me more, don't ask me how I feel, because right this particular second I haven't got a clue. Or you probably don't want to really hear the answer. No. It's the truth of the matter, right? Yeah. And we hold back because we don't want to, you know, caught up in that drama and add more drama to other people's lives. We feel like we shouldn't go talking all over people and sometimes you shouldn't, but there is those times where you need to just go blah.
and let it all out and you need to have that safe person or that safe place to be able to do that. So we went searching for that safe place right we actually packed up our bags we sold everything we owned and and we moved and we thought right well we need a fresh start this was our solution we needed a fresh start a fresh opportunity and so we moved moved away from our families because they were just causing the headaches and dramas and
Yeah, once again, they were trying to be supportive and I understand now, their hearts are all in the right place. we need help trying to help us to heal, but we didn't realize that they weren't And I know for me, when I'm going through heart and we have finally figured it out, I sometimes need to withdraw and be by myself and process it.
slowly because I won't necessarily have the words to say, this is how I'm feeling, this is what's going on, because I'm all just this big jumble. But if I can then have that space to go, okay, I can. Well, frustration begins when knowledge ends. Yeah. Right. And when we don't have the space to process and have the capacity to do that, we ended up in that frustration spiral, which then goes into, you know, pretty messy.
Yeah. If we don't give that space, right? So we've had to learn a few things around this, around how our buying psychology and brain processes decisions. That's part of our growth journey. how our nervous systems work. That's been part of our growth journey. But going back to this space, right? So we moved from Grafton to Launceston. Well, actually we moved to Tasmania and we, so we got a plane. We thought at this time that we, you know, like the New South Wales rental system, right? You just need a good credit.
a good bond history, like rental history. And we had that. We had that, but we also had a bad credit history because of all the, you know, me being put under disability pension. I'll come back to that later. And our credit history was shot. We didn't realize that and very naive when we moved down to Tasmania and we're actually homeless for the first three months. Yes. Thankfully we did have savings to try. We savings. we were living out of caravan parks, which is bloody expensive in Tasmania, even way back then. You know, so we went through our savings.
very very fast and it almost got to the point where we're shit what are done? We're gonna have to move back to the mainland and you know then we finally found a house you know after about 20 tries. Yeah. And we found and we ended up moving into Launceston. Yeah. Now at this stage of the game we thought we'd made the worst decision of our lives moving to Tasmania because of the hardship of trying to find a place. But being stubborn and not wanting to go.
it didn't work. We didn't want other people to be right. We wanted to be right, really. And we hadn't got to the point where I just don't want to fight about it anymore. So we found a place 12 months into it. You know, we thought moving to Tasmania would be, you know, that's our escapism, right? That was we'll have a fresh start and things will be great. The thing with that, if you don't and the lesson to take away from it.
If you don't deal with your baggage, it follows you. It becomes very heavy. It does. So our problems didn't get left behind. We brought them with us and it wasn't until we actually started dealing with them that things changed. So let's talk about that first 12 months in Tasmania. What was that like for you? Oh, do we have to? Yeah. I think we're out of space where we can. Yeah. It was really...
because again, I was trying to find my anchor again, find where I fitted in. And I was very much in survival mode. was just getting through each day. had these tiny little kids. It's like, I don't have the luxury of falling apart because they need me. And I am so grateful that they did because I think I would have just- Without that, yeah. That was your anchor. Yeah, they were. And I rebuilt my world.
around them and finding who I was again in that space. we're both in pretty much identity crisis. We're both pretty much trying to figure out our identity again and rebuilding from that brokenness. Yeah. Because the experiences leading up to that had rocked our world. Well, there's a reason that the death of a parent, spouse or child is the most stressful thing we ever go through.
And moving house, having a baby, serious illness, you with your disability flaring up and all of that. These are all things that are in the top 10. If a couple of them are in the top five and we were broken. Yeah. Seriously, seriously.
And everybody had it's right off. They won't survive, their marriage won't survive. And that was the conversations that everybody was having because they knew that we probably needed to heal. And they didn't think we could do it together. So we're in this space, we moved to a state, we don't know anybody, we've moved away from our family on purpose, that was our choice. And we found our space in this pretty
hard space alone. We had each other, but we didn't. We were in massive survival mode. And I can remember the actually the weeks, the catalyst moment, right? I'm an atheist and I've dug my heels in around this and it's just gotten deeper and worse in that space. Sarah's probably leaning more into drawing on what she knew, which was her survival, which was her faith. And so Sarah's- That's something that my momma said.
one last ditch attempt to really save me, save our marriage was Sarah said, okay, right. We're going to church. And so we went to what she knew best, which was a Catholic church. And already I had past experiences around, you know, with my back childhood around spirituality and religious and all that sort of stuff. And there's some stuff that happened when I was a kid that helped me to grab it sort of into a bit of a
bad space around this and bad thoughts around this. And I wouldn't share that at the time, I looked at religious people as hypocrites and I didn't want to be part of that. And I, you know, they say they're nice and all, the thing they'd say they do this thing, but then you, all the, all the religious people I knew as growing up as a child, what they said and what they did was completely different. They were very hypocritical people and
Obviously my father had a whole bunch of very judgy people. Judgy people, right? And so I was feeling already judged left, right and center and I didn't want more of that. And so, but Sarah's gone, right? Well, look, we need to do something different. So let's go to church. So we went to church, Catholic mass and I, 20 minutes into it, I don't know. just got, something just triggered me. I think it was the fact that they all went up for communion.
And I had to stay back and I felt so I never felt belonged. I had to stay because I wasn't baptized or any of that. They're the religious stuff. I was not in the in club and I was I very much desperately needed to feel like I needed to belong somewhere. And that just brought up all your bullying. Yeah, bullying stuff as a kid and stuff too. I never really up until recently, I never really felt like I belonged anywhere, not even in my own family. Yeah. But yeah, I bit him.
Well, I'm an acquired taste. I'm eclectic. And I've had to really own that too. I've had to really step into that and grow into that and be okay with that. But I've also, coming back to this point in the time, right, something visceral happened in me. And I'm embarrassed to say, but I acted like a three-year-old having a teenage tantrum. It was kind of impressive.
Dare I say. It was embarrassing. Extremely. There's been probably two or three moments in my life where I've had rage fits and really the police should have been called.
And I still don't know how to this day that I'm not in jail sometimes with the way that I just like, I don't remember it. Like I have people describing to me what's going on in those slides. I don't remember it. But I know in this one, I do remember like I got up, I screamed at the top of my lungs. I said, I don't want any of this fucking God crap in my life ever again. I've tried it. I've done.
And I dragged Sarah and the kids screaming out with me and everybody just looked at us. The priest, the congregation, they just all looked at us modified because we're sitting at the back and we walked in 10 minutes late and so they were probably none the wiser that we were even there. No, because the beauty of church in Rose, you can sneak in the back door and you can sit there and you can hide and you don't have to talk to anybody after if you don't want to, you can just sneak out. I forgot to give him that little tip.
Right, anyway, I actually call it now that it was probably a demonic thing that was happening. Right, so I had a visceral reaction. I got up kicking and screaming, swearing at the top of my lungs and I really abused it, really at the near and dragged Sarah and the kids to the and screamed it out and then went home and then three days later tried to kill myself. And that's where the silver lining to the cloud
comes in or to the out of every bad experience something good can happen in that a couple of days later and thank God for Harrison walking in on you and stopping you Well that was God used Harrison yes. But a few days later you actually opened up to a friend of ours told her what was going on.
And she then introduced us to, to Sharon and Tim. And we're at the Tower Race Center, which is, it's a function center and a kids playground. We've been going there for a while. Didn't necessarily realize that it was, was run by, by a church. Like I had a vague idea. It was an event center. Yeah. That was all we knew. was like, it's a cool indoor kids playground and our kids love being there. And we'd gone there for business meetings and.
Yeah, so. you opened up to Celine and then we went to... And you opening up to her. I also found, in that space, found my people who I could go because we had been up until that time, or I know I had been, wearing that, I'm okay, just hold it Yeah, was a fake it till you make it. I let the mask drop and admitted, hey, no, it's not okay.
Yeah, because I was building a business. I was building your reflex marketing at that stage and I was networking and I was wearing all the suits. I was putting all the fake bravado, arrogance, ego, very much look at me, look at me. And then coming home, I'd close doors. Being a very different person. It was completely shit. So, you know, talking about not liking hypocrites. I was a hypocrite. But you opened up to Celine. She introduces them. They invited us to
a community event. And that was all we knew was like they're having this long table family feast. And we went because we need some, we don't know anybody we need. Well, I identified, I identified there at that stage, the missing piece for us was, was we needed friends, need connection, we need community. Yeah. So we were not supposed to do life alone. And yeah, okay. We had walked away from our families and we're trying to do it all alone, which is what
so many people do. then at that dinner when we were invited to, so was a Friday night, when we were invited to check out the church service on the Sunday, I had this, could the ground open up and swallow me now because this is not going to be pretty. That PTSD from the last event. was just like, okay, the last time I tried to take him to church, it did not go well.
And I did not want to repeat of that and I was I was bracing for the... the... Well, I wouldn't have been at that particular point. I would not have been surprised if you smacked him out just for for offering the invitation. But you didn't. You accepted the invite and I'm standing there going, we'll see how this goes. Is that a... Yeah, but I'll say yes, we'll go just to shut him up so he doesn't...
so we can get out of here.
But then we actually went and the thing my mum had said was that he needs God in his life and when that happens, everything else will work itself out and will be okay. Shhh! We won't tell her that she was right. I think she knows. My mum had one of those really annoying habits of
Frequently being right. We don't want our parents to be right, but most of the time she was. Wisdom, right? Yeah. And on that Sunday, because I had known that that was what was missing and that was why I tried to take you to church. I spent that Sunday with tears streaming down my face because I knew I'd come home.
And when you went up to Tim at the end of the service and said, I don't know anything about this Christianity stuff, but I know I want to, I know what I've been doing, hasn't been working. I want to know more. Will you help me? That was the start of turning everything around and of a really beautiful journey. the start of it was me realizing that at that point when how selfish I was going to be.
you know, trying to kill myself. I was like, I was two o'clock in the morning. I had the bottle of Jemisin's, I had the bottle of pills. I was looking myself in the mirror. I was just about to do it. And then in that split second, next second, Harrison, all of two, never, never woke up at night. He was a sound sleeper, gets up and says, dad, what are you doing? And that stopped me on the track. And it was just that ownership of how selfish I was. And that's where my ownership started to begin. So I was in a world of hurt.
You were too, but in my own way, right? was both in a world of hurt and my hurt was, it wasn't my fault. I was a victim. I was severely bullied as a kid. You know, I had not a great relationship with my father. I had every excuse and every reason and every justification to say, hey, I was a victim. This is not my fault. I was in that blame, excuse and denial space.
And it was through starting some personal development coaching, actually through some business coaching that I needed to start to see how to live life above the line to start to take ownership, accountability and responsibility for my staff. And you needed to learn how to pick up your own. Yeah. I needed to lead to pick up my shit and deal with it and do the messy hard internal work. so taking ownership of that, that very selfish decision that I all but made.
was the catalyst. And then God just, once you make that decision, God opens up doors. then looking back, that's what's happened, right? So God introduced me to Celine. We both had that safe person to be able to lean on and just go right. And then she connected us to Tim and Sharon. Once again, safe people. And the tail race community was a community where
It was a safe place for us to feel like we belonged and they invited us in. wasn't pressured at all. was, was a very much an invitation and, and it helped us to feel like we belonged and gave us that safe space to be reconciled and to own our shit, to take accountability, to take responsibility and then give us the safe space then over the next 10 years to heal. And we're still healing.
We're still doing the messy. We're still doing the transformation. We are all works in progress.
Yeah. I sometimes think, and one of our lovely friends, Anne has a great way of putting it, Rock Bottom is a really firm foundation to build back up from. I think we needed to, to hit that for us to then to step. And one of my early experiences too, of when I knew that I'd found that spot where we belonged was with Alana.
our son Lachlan. Now understandably, Loki was very very clingy in that I suppose I was his safe place. didn't have... Well I definitely wasn't. No. And yeah. He still is very clingy. Yeah. And both Harrison and Lachlan, I was not a very safe person to be around.
And basically that's one of the things that I have done a lot of work on a lot of restoration and repair and forgiveness and seeking through with Sarah and my kids is learning how to become that safe person. So they want to be around me because Harrison and Lachlan, they're looking their eyes. It broke my heart every single time to have my own boys looking back at me and be so fearful of me and run away every time I tried to get near them.
Well, Lachlan in those early stages, because he was only four months old when we moved to Tasmania. So he was still under one when they said, oh, he was about one when, when this all happened. But we'd been going to the tower race for business meetings for a while and Alana looked after the kids. But up until this particular day, wouldn't let anybody else. Lachlan would cling to me like Jeff, even to get him to go to Jeff, he'd have to pry him out of my arms.
I'm holding like this particular day, I'm holding Lachlan and we go to say hello to Alana and Loki jumps out of my arms into hers and it's like, what did you, how, what did you do? This child will go to no one, but he would not go to anyone and he would cry when I put him down if, or if he couldn't see me. And all of a sudden he's
leaping into this other woman's arms and smiling at me. And so God's doing that. It's okay, mom. I'm good. And so God used that, like he had to bring us into this amazing community. Because for me, the most precious thing that I could ever do and wanted to take ownership of was to make sure my boys had a place where they could thrive. My life, our life revolves around our boys. yeah. Our marriage revolves around
making sure our boys are thriving. that is- And one way we do that is making sure that we're okay, that our marriage is Well, we've done work, we're still doing work on that. But as I said, we've done the messy, we've done the hard, we argue in front of our boys, but we also do forgiveness well and reconciliation well as a community, as a family. And essentially, you We give them lots of opportunities to practice forgiveness too. Yes, we do. And they do for us too.
So we're pretty raw, vulnerable and real about it all. No, pretty transparent about it all. In every area of our lives. know, financial mess, the whole lot, right? Within our circle. We shelter them to a certain extent, but not to the point where they don't know that there is challenges. We don't hide things from them. We shelter them from things that they don't need to be exposed to.
Of course, but... Yeah. We let them know what's going on. So that they... I don't think we need to justify that. No. Then they feel safe to talk to us about stuff. Yeah. Like, if you feel like, if you want to judge us and condemn us on the way we're doing things, then you're probably not our tribe. See you later. Like, bye bye. People in glass houses should not go throwing stones. Well, yeah, don't look at the speck in my eye when you've got a plank in your own. So this whole... I don't know how that got there.
This whole journey though, right? Where are we leading to is transformation. Yeah. You know, and I think we've done some massive transformation in our marriage, in our personal lives, in our family lives, in our, in our business lives, financially, physically, emotionally, spiritually. If I had to sum it all up, the thing that's helped us thrive is learning to embrace transformation. And part of that is learning to embrace how to love ourselves.
how to love God. And yes, I do love God now. For those of you who are listening, I was an atheist and now I'm, you know, both Sarah and I are online pastors. We planted a church 12 months ago, actually this weekend. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I remember Tim and Sharon, went to exponential last year and they came about, started talking about some, maybe not this weekend, I maybe it's weekend after, but it's close to 12 months. We decided that we're going to plant a church. And so we started today's discipleship community.
and to help people to, to transform in Jesus' love. And because we'd seen, like through our own experiences as well, and through friends and family, there are times when actually getting to a physical church is really difficult. I suppose we noticed it with Harrison with his MS journey. There was times where we just couldn't go and-
Yes, you can watch services online, but you then miss that community and that connection. And we wanted to create a space for that. also that we've seen so many people who they have a faith or they're questioning, they're exploring, but they don't have somewhere to go to be able to do that. And then we have friends in our church community now too, are homeless or doing things.
tough and they can't always get to a physical church or don't feel safe and comfortable to be able to do that because they. Yeah. And then we have other Christians who want to get really into the heart of discipleship and might not necessarily have that at their local church, but there's something missing for them. So they're attracted to that space as well. Right. So we've got everything in between and everybody in between. And what I love about what we're doing is just like how we were welcomed into a safe space. We're creating a safe space.
And I've got the fidgets. let's, you know, we've been going for an hour now, so I think we could talk all day about this topic. Yes. It is our lives and people do love to talk about ourselves. Yeah. I'm usually much happier being one asking questions, but I do like just sitting here having a chat. All right. So let's call it a wrap. So let's do our quick 30 second testimonial. There was once a time in my life. So I'll start.
And this is one of the things that our good friend, Tim O'Neill taught us, you know, to be able to help share us and Steve Addison. Yep. To be able to help to share our stories with people. Right. So what I want to sum around here is, yes, this is a joint podcast episode for Taboo Talk with Sarah. I think we've talked a lot about Taboo stuff today. Do you think we took that? Yeah, I think we covered it. I think the other thing we didn't say was why I started it. Oh, we can come back to that. So hold on to that.
So basically this is a joint podcast. I think we've ticked the box here. We're talking about stories telling and attraction marketing and you know, purpose and life and why. I think you know why we do what we do. And my why is to help people to live a purpose driven life. You know, and I do that through the Laptop Lifestyle Dads show. I do that through my coaching and mentoring business. We do that through our online church.
And I'll come back to that in a second, if you're curious about what that is. And, you know, Sarah does that through her way of doing it, but we do it through our family as well. We do it through our personal. So if you had to sum up everything that I do, the reason why I do it, it's about helping people to live their purpose driven life so I can live my purpose driven life. So I think there's some marketing lessons there for you in that conversation. And I think this adds to the Laptop Lifestyle Dad's audience, right? Plus,
You've gotten to know both Sarah and I a little bit more intimate. know, it's all about. You probably know stuff now that you wish you didn't, but that's okay. That's okay. Whatever. Um, so Sarah, you know, you started Taboo Talk with Sarah, beginning of this year, to 8.25. Yeah. Why?
Well, I spent 25 years in the health and well being space and healing has been a big thing for me all through my life. It seems to be a recurring theme and I get exposed to people going through health crisis is and the challenges that that creates and the changes in that. But it was that I was having lots of conversations where I was hearing people say, if not exactly,
the same thing, very close to it. Like that they'd been through really similar experiences. And the common thread was no one talks about it.
So it was that lots of women have been through miscarriages or stillbirths or lots of people have lost their parents. we've all been through these things, but nobody talks about it. And then a song came on the radio, a song called Whiskey Lullaby. And one line in it, nobody ever knew. And I think that's the problem. Nobody knows what anyone else is going through because we don't have those conversations.
So I wanted to start those conversations because I think that is where we will find that healing, where we find that connection. We weren't meant to do life alone and we struggle when we try. But when we find those people and those places where we belong, that's when we thrive. That's when we can heal. And then when we can start, we heal ourselves, we heal our families, we heal our communities and then we heal our world.
Yeah, so Sarah's got her own personal why around that. I've got my personal why, but then if you had to bring out why, why we do everything together, it's about creating that space where people belong. It's about creating safe spaces, communities. You've only got to look at what we do in life with the podcast, with the business life, with our faith life, with what we're doing now with our family and now what we're doing with today's discipleship community. Yeah. It's just a, they're just expressions, right? They're just vehicles to help us to really help serve that purpose.
And, uh, you know, so just quickly talk about to say today's discipleship community and then we'll wrap up and yes, we'll wrap up with a dad joke because it wouldn't be a laptop lost on dad show if it wasn't. Um, so if you've loved our story, if you've gotten value from this story, please share it with your community. And if you'd like to connect with us, reach out, we'd love to chat. We love to talk about these things. We're pretty obsessed with it.
our faith family business, the whole lot. And hey, if you just want to make a new friend, we'd love that too. Yes. Really reach out to us. You can find us on both shows. So the Laptop Lifestyle Dads show and Taboo Talk with Sarah, both on Apple. They're both on Spotify. They're both on YouTube. And Sarah's will be very shortly, but you can find also the Laptop Lifestyle Dads show on the Los Angeles Tribune podcast network.
And we'll be bringing Sarah's over shortly, I reckon, so I've just got to talk to the right people to make that happen. Hint, hint, Michael Silvers. Anyway, so if you'd like to know a bit more about our, to say today's discipleship community, that's our online church. We meet up at a Monday morning at 10 a.m. Sydney time. We're a global community. We've actually got seven countries represented. We've got probably around about 40 people that show up between all of the different groups.
Well, we're small group community. Like we've got Brad and Bell leading Alpha Online on a Tuesday at 7 p.m. Central time. We've got our 12 p.m. Wednesday here in Australia. We've got our big call that we run for the international global community on Monday at 10 a.m. Sydney time every Mondays, which is normally Sunday, anywhere from about three o'clock to seven o'clock in the USA. And it's it's group discussion.
It's like small group group discussion where we pick a topic at the moment. We're unpacking like how and why the Bible and how it's a tool to help us to go deeper with our faith. Next Monday, we're talking about how to use soaping, which is a way to journal on the Bible to get the wisdom and glean from that and apply the lessons to our lives and help us to grow from that space. Everything we do is about helping us to transform the one through Jesus' love.
know, the transformation happens. It's heart, one soul at a time. Yeah. And the life at a time. Great commandment, right? Is to learn how to love yourself, love God and to love others. Yes. And then go and teach other people to do that exactly the same thing. So that's our expression of how we're doing that through 2DC. And if you'd love to learn more about that, we'll make sure that the links and the details are in the show notes below. Yeah. We'll get our little editor to pop them in. Of course we will. And uh, Harrison.
Thank you. Mum and dad love what you're doing in this space and stepping up at 13 years age and doing our production and editing for both podcast shows. He's getting paid for it. But also I love that he's taken ownership of it and we wouldn't be where we are without your support. So thank you, Harrison. Really appreciate you. Lachlan- He's a pretty amazing kid. And Lachlan Jackson pretty amazing too. Like we really love all of our three boys in different ways, of course, their own unique way.
And we bring out the best in everybody and they bring out the best in us and help us to step up and be better parents. Yes. Every day they help us to be better people. give us the thing why to want to do that. And Sarah, I deeply respect you. I love you. Thank you for helping me to be the best version of myself to help. Thank you for being the first person to see that, to bring so much hope and peace and joy into our lives.
Thank you for being the glue for our family, for being stubborn and not giving up on me. And thank you for going through hell and back with me. I love you and I appreciate you. I don't know what to say to that. You're not meant to. So let's take it to a different direction now. Here's my dad joke. Oh do we have to? So I know my friend Daveo likes this one. He actually gave it to me and it's a goodie, but it's an oldie. And I think it's appropriate for today's episode. Sarah.
You know I married you for your looks, don't you? Mm-hmm, just not the ones I give you now.
And let's call that a wrap. Thanks for your time guys. We'll see you on the next episode either on Laptop Lifestyle Dad's Show or on Tabby Talk with Sarah. until we do see you again, remember your stories matter. So please, please keep telling them. We need to have those conversations. They sure do. next time. Stay caffeinated, stay legendary. We'll see you on the next episode.